Shadow Leader

I have to admit, many of the people who are involved in horseracing (in the UK) on this forum appear to be female and very often this adds a different dimension to racing forums.

Songsheet, Krizon (sadly not posting on here anymore), Diminuendo (sadly doesn't post here either) Headstrong, Imagine, Crazyhorse, Isinglass, Spoons et al. all post on subjects they are interested in and possibly directly involved in on a near day to day basis.

Perhaps some of you blokes don't like the women being able to voice their opinions on here as it may sound a little gossipy at times when it is just sharing topics we feel some may be interested in or have a strong opinion on (ie The Yarmouth thread) - and I am sorry so many of you clearly aren't happy! Perhaps, bokes don't think women should be involved in racing per se! :P Clearly that won't stop us posting though but thanks for the heads up! (excuse the expression)

This isn't (as far as I am aware ) a strictly Irish, male only racing forum to talk about betting and systems, and until someone tells me differently, I hope the ladies will continue to post and add our personal (perhaps feminine) touch to a forum which otherwise may become a bit stale and extremely one dimensional. :rolleyes: Perhaps the forum is becoming a little sexist - god forbid! We are doing you a favour lads, if only you could see it. :D :wub:

Best tip of today, avoid those threads and those forumites that clearly wind you up! I'm certainly trying but it's pretty difficult at times.
 
Apologies, An Capall - I meant (and forgot) to say that this quote :

The moral guardians of middle England are poised to smite 24X7. I can't be arsed putting any thought into racing posts anymore and risk death by cut and paste or a some smug reminder that somebody on here knows the person who cleans the toilet in the pub round back of Paul Nicholls place.
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made me laugh so loud with it's accuracy and humour that I nearly choked!
 
People sniping and making petty comments like these are just so childish. If I react, I can almost guarantee I will get sent a PM from one of the mods within seconds.
 
It's an open discussion, Gareth. Feel free to give your totally unbiased and proffessional opinion.

I'll let you know if I don't agree with it! :D
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Mar 30 2008, 08:13 PM
I only wish the Irish would be more forthcoming about what goes on over there...
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Members of this forum have been treated to some fascinating - and accurate - info from Irish stables over the years... I can't understand how you haven't appreciated that, Headstrong.
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I do appreciate the huge input about Irish yards/horses, and I've said in fact several times on here that imo it's what makes TH unique, and provides its most valuable aspect

But compared to some of the Brits, you Irish are so tight-lipped about the Irish racing scene and its personalities in general, it's like you'd all taken the vow of Omerta :P

I do realise that a few of you work in the industry so discretion is paramount, all the same...!
It's the rich tapestry of racing which is its draw for me, the people as much as the horses
The punting is just an an add-on!
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Mar 30 2008, 11:52 AM
...... Naturally some posts will attract more attention than others, but at least give discussion a chance to prosper rather than just sitting on the sidelines. All of us will have individual or groups of posters whose style or opinions don't agree with our own. However the more we sit back and don't participate, the more it will appear that it is those posters who are dominating the forum.

A little bit of adult feedback wouldn't go amiss either and I hope that that is the spirit that anything that has been posted on this thread will be taken. Too often people are bottling things up until it resorts to sniping, whereas in the real world they would simply take that person to one side and explain how their actions are concerning them.

On top of that, if anyone has any ideas about what they would like to see on the forum, new sections, comps etc. Post it up or let the mods know. The success of this place is dependent on the ideas and contributions of all of its members, not just a select few.
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I think this is the best post on this thread, in the sense of being the most constructive.

Following on from Bets' remarks, maybe it's time Col and the Mods discussed whether it's practicable to split the racing side of the forum into two sections: viz: Punting/Form, and general Horse Matters

Not that that will eliminate personal animosities, but some of the fellers who get cheesed off with the more general stuff, inc divisive racing politics, could then ignore it more easily. Btw: part of the problem at the moment that a massive row in another forum has spilled over a bit into this one, unfortunately.

I'm sure all of us can think of people in the forum who in our own opinion talk rubbish most of the time, inc a few who think they know it all... which is no doubt reciprocated. It's unnecessary to keep saying they are talking rubbish. One man's 'fact' is another man's opinion.
 
Please don't split the main racing forum up, it's tiresome to have to look at two forums, and anyway you'll get topics started in the wrong forum, topics started in both forums, or topics not started at all because people can't decide which forum it should be posted in so don't bother for fear of getting told off.

Personally, I'd rather TH just had two forums - "Horse Racing" and "Everything Else".
 
Suggestions are more than welcome but this thread is not going to lapse into personal attacks.

Suggest everyone takes a step back and look at themselves rather than other posters. Sort yourself out and you've done your bit.
 
But compared to some of the Brits, you Irish are so tight-lipped about the Irish racing scene and its personalities in general, it's like you'd all taken the vow of Omerta
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I think the point - with all due respect Headstrong - is that for me information involves a revelation about a horse's upcoming target, or trainer thoughts or something of that nature.

I do not consider spurious information about what 'the boys in the Curragh bookies/tavern/stable gathering' [delete where appropriate] were saying about the ride given by such and such to a horse to add any weight or merit to a particular debate.

This is not specifically aimed at you, by the way, but sometimes I think the point of some people's posts are to prove that they actually know people to make a point rather than contributing to the debate. That's why many threads go off on bizarre tangents.

You're completely off the mark when you think that people want to talk about betting or systems. That's rubbish; the better debates on here are generally National Hunt ones with various opinions on novice chasers and hurdlers. A variance of opinions on a horse's potential and the merits of their respective form. There's been a few good chats about the Thyne Again, Glencove Marina and Big Zebs of this world. That's nothing to do with betting or systems, just pure and simple interest in the game and views expressed by fans of the sport. Back to basics.
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Mar 30 2008, 08:24 PM
Perhaps some of you blokes don't like the women being able to voice their opinions on here as it may sound a little gossipy at times when it is just sharing topics we feel some may be interested in or have a strong opinion on (ie The Yarmouth thread) - and I am sorry so many of you clearly aren't happy! Perhaps, bokes don't think women should be involved in racing per se! :P Clearly that won't stop us posting though but thanks for the heads up! (excuse the expression)
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I'm shocked at this contribution.

Some of the shrewdest and most intelligent observation in this forum has come from women.

Guys are just as capable of spouting sh*te as any woman but please forgive us if we choose to ignore some of the less interesting sh*te. We'll do the same thing, I'm sure, when some idiot bloke comes on here and spouts sh*te.
 
Originally posted by Bobbyjo@Mar 30 2008, 09:51 PM
But compared to some of the Brits, you Irish are so tight-lipped about the Irish racing scene and its personalities in general, it's like you'd all taken the vow of Omerta
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I think the point - with all due respect Headstrong - is that for me information involves a revelation about a horse's upcoming target, or trainer thoughts or something of that nature.

I do not consider spurious information about what 'the boys in the Curragh bookies/tavern/stable gathering' [delete where appropriate] were saying about the ride given by such and such to a horse to add any weight or merit to a particular debate.

This is not specifically aimed at you, by the way, but sometimes I think the point of some people's posts are to prove that they actually know people to make a point rather than contributing to the debate. That's why many threads go off on bizarre tangents.

You're completely off the mark when you think that people want to talk about betting or systems. That's rubbish; the better debates on here are generally National Hunt ones with various opinions on novice chasers and hurdlers. A variance of opinions on a horse's potential and the merits of their respective form. There's been a few good chats about the Thyne Again, Glencove Marina and Big Zebs of this world. That's nothing to do with betting or systems, just pure and simple interest in the game and views expressed by fans of the sport. Back to basics.
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Points well made Bobbyjo - but I was mainly tryig to lighten the tone a bit!
Sometimes people [and I include myself in that :P ] do take everything on here too damn seriously

I do in fact love hearing about racing personalities and their opinions/eccentricities, where forumites have been, who they've met and what might have been said, endlessly fascinating. I find it hard to remember / believe that others don't. I love reading all that stuff in the sporting press - or on the forums. Each to their own!

I agree that comparing horses is the core of it; but equally some people *do* want to talk about betting systems and speed rating - and why not if that's what rocks their boat? I quite enjoy reading about a lot of that stuff, tho I don't always understand it.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid+Mar 30 2008, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Desert Orchid @ Mar 30 2008, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kathy@Mar 30 2008, 08:24 PM
Perhaps some of you blokes don't like the women being able to voice their opinions on here as it may sound a little gossipy at times when it is just sharing topics we feel some may be interested in or have a strong opinion on (ie The Yarmouth thread) - and I am sorry so many of you clearly aren't happy! Perhaps, bokes don't think women should be involved in racing per se! :P Clearly that won't stop us posting though but thanks for the heads up! (excuse the expression)
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I'm shocked at this contribution.

Some of the shrewdest and most intelligent observation in this forum has come from women.

Guys are just as capable of spouting sh*te as any woman but please forgive us if we choose to ignore some of the less interesting sh*te. We'll do the same thing, I'm sure, when some idiot bloke comes on here and spouts sh*te. [/b][/quote]
:laughing:

I think you're badly off the mark here Kathy (in fact I'd go so far as to say embarrassingly so). Find me an example where someone's said that women shouldn't contribute?

If it's the sniping (consistantly raised by quite a few people) that so many find objectionable (different, but related issue) I'd be more than interested to see a gender breakdown of it. Whether you like it or not, I'm afraid it does seem to revolve around the same people and the same issues, time and time again (and that's being polite). I can only think of two occasions where any, what you might call 'fall out' was a purely male on male thing, (but don't intend to go there for I see little to gain from raking over old ashes). If I'm wrong you can of course PM me.

But I fear as I hit the 'add reply' button this is only going to end in more of the same
 
But compared to some of the Brits, you Irish are so tight-lipped about the Irish racing scene and its personalities in general,
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This is an intriguing point and leads us in to what I consider to be genuine cultural differences.

I know for a fact that quite a few of the Irish contributors have interests in horses, but wouldn't dream of posting something like "I was talking to my trainer." There would be no cultural entitlement to do that as it would (in Ireland at least) be inppropriately elitist. It would be seen as we say "getting above yerself."

There is also, maybe for historical para legal reasons, a tendency to keep your personal business private. Thirdly - I learn about three times as much from a one line post of Garney, Luke or Gareth et al than I would in one of the 1000 word epics that turn up here on occasion. You need to understand the understatement.
 
:brows: Hmmm - slight touch of inverted snobbery there, I think, Mr Farrell... !

I would agree there is too much interest in what amounts to no more than salacious gossip with regards to who is doing what (usually with whom). It was ever so in the racing world, mainly because it's such a small one, I suppose.

It would be perhaps better to consider that there are several members on these forums that probably also know the subject matter some of these more suspect posts are referring to and that the claims presented on the forum often bear no resemblance whatsoever to the version direct from the horse's mouth.....

I definitely miss LordH - he was always very accurate in his rare goss-fests !!
 
This forum bores me quite a bit now, but I recognise that I am a part of the problem.

I haven't done anything to improve the quality of the debate recently, as I am too busy to post often and even when I am posting frequently, my interest in horses has waned slightly as my job does not facilitate swift trips to the bookies like my old job.
 
I mean just read the 'Departures' or 'Yarmouth' topics. The moral guardians of middle England are poised to smite 24X7.
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I never look at the Departures thread but have just re-read the Yarmouth thread and found it a very worthwhile discussion.

Granted, Fudge's contributions were deleted before I got to read them, but it seems to have been done in his own best interests, and his main message comes through anyway.

And granted, several contributors refer to their involvements as breeders and owners, but this is useful information when it is relevant to the topic being discussed. Indeed, people could leave themselves open to accusations of concealing vested interests if they were not open about them.
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Mar 30 2008, 11:38 AM
No chance of that then Aiden :D

I'm not sure about the call for quality myself. I used to start the odd thread, and indulge in what I thought were well worked through hypotheses/ debate/ researched and reasoned arguments etc all that happened though is people complained about them being too long, and the usual suspects who only read half of them, would then seize on the first bit they took issue with (regardless of context as they didn't continue to read the rest) and start kicking off.

IMO, it's barely worth bothering therefore. TH is essentially a couple of sentances laced with pithy one liners, and the usual vitriol. I doubt very much that despite protestations to the contrary, people are really that interested in going much beyond this. I certainly see little evidence of it anyway. A classic example of indicating left and turning right.
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I find your posts the most interesting when you are analysing a race. I have to concentrate so therefor less likely to skim & miss bits out. more of the same please?
 
An Capell's observation is very interesting - even if it's easy enough to work out the cultural difference from postings. But you Irish guys presumably meet up at the races etc and you know where one another's info is coming from, so you can read between the lines. The rest of us can't, and it does seems bit cliquey in that sense at times. Personally I prefer to know where people are coming from, inc who they know/work for, so I can assess how much or little credence to place on whatever statement/advice they offer, but clearly everyone has to post in the manner comfortable to themselves.

Posting up details of people's private lives in a public forum is quite unacceptable imo. On one occasion I refrained from mentioning a pertinent detail in that line even tho it was totally central to the racing-related barney going on [which got very heated!]. I do sometimes correct or confirm details if something in that line is inaccurate, tho.

I wouldn't question people's stated involvement - I find people are usually very straight in making clear their own personal areas of knowledge and where they got these. In my own case although I'm no longer personally involved financially, I still spend much of my time with trainers, jocks, owners and others involved at the business end, as I have done for about 6 years now, and you learn an awful lot being immersed in it in that way, and going racing in such company.
 
I personally have met only Bobbyjo, Grey and Gearoid, HS but that is not the point. You should think of us as you would 'The Borg' in Star Trek. We are an amalgam of cybernetically enhanced humanoid drones of multiple counties, organised as an inter-connected collective with a hive mind, inhabiting a green region of Europe with many sources of information, advanced cognitive abilities and sophisticated reasoning.

Although given his last post I think I should remind Grey that resistance is futile.
 
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