Snowden et al

Ok then. We will live with an annual 9/11 and any number of hijacks so that we can get through checkouts earlier

Perhaps the general advances in airliner safety are a bit of a waste of time too. Just let a few go down here and there and so what. Not likely to happen to me blah blah
 
t seems that GCHQ are very impressed by the new analysis software they were given by the Americans
Click to expand...

So? its software not information. I was impressed with my Apple when i bought it

The bugging of the EU embassies in Washington and New York and hacking into Commission computers in Brussels would have been for commercial and trade reasons.
Click to expand...

always happened and always will. Industrial espionage has been going on since stone age man sold his first herd of dinosaurs. We are not going to lose sleep over that
 
Arthur, people know Governments spy on other Governments and institutions all the time - for a variety of reasons.

We do know about it - most just don't particularly care that it goes on, because most accept it for what it is. I bet none of us can name someone personally know to us - no matter how remotely - who has ever had a 'visit' related to anything picked-up through surveillance.

Except maybe some of the Paddy contingent here, born pre-1975 perhaps. :D

Hamm, it's a non-story in my view - with "puffing" used in a general sense. I'll worry after I get said 'visit' or when there are tanks and troops on the street, when I pull my curtains back.

That's maybe one for the Ulster Tim's to comment on. :D

We can joke about this sh*t now that we're all pals, right? :blink:

Call me complacent, but there will never be such scenes in the UK. The Hoi Polloi maybe have huge suspicion of and disregard for the Great Unwashed.....but it just wouldn't be cricket.
 
In a nutshell.

I think some like to believe that they are being "watched" whereas some fruitloop who believes that we should all be eating just sprouts and going on "workers marches" is frankly filed under nutter and left in a dusty file somewhere in the vaults
 
Grasshopper said:
Call me complacent, but there will never be such scenes in the UK. The Hoi Polloi maybe have huge suspicion of and disregard for the Great Unwashed.....but it just wouldn't be cricket.
Click to expand...
But it is happening. Right now, and more sophisticated and ubiquitous than we had ever realised.
Snowden showed us. He revealed the TEMPORA project that GCHQ is operating. He showed that TEMPORA's two main constituents were "Mastering The Internet" and "Global Telecoms Exploitation". If those monikers don't indicate mass surveillance .....................
GCHQ's "Mastering The Internet" module alone has an annual budget of over £1 billion. We should be concerned, even those of us with nothing to hide.
 
Grey said:
not all of it is for security purposes. The bugging of the EU embassies in Washington and New York and hacking into Commission computers in Brussels would have been for commercial and trade reasons.
Click to expand...
I would agree with this.
But I also think that the Intelligence services and law enforcement agencies are constantly in search of secrets, and they will look anywhere and everywhere for them. That includes looking at the comms and internet footprints of the ordinary citizen.
 
Grasshopper said:
Arthur, people know Governments spy on other Governments and institutions all the time - for a variety of reasons.

We do know about it - most just don't particularly care that it goes on, because most accept it for what it is. I bet none of us can name someone personally know to us - no matter how remotely - who has ever had a 'visit' related to anything picked-up through surveillance.

Except maybe some of the Paddy contingent here, born pre-1975 perhaps. :D
Click to expand...

I'll never play poker with you, Grassy, you'd be sneaking a look at my cards the whole time.

Ok, I'm a Paddy born pre-1975 but I know people who were 'visited'. I think you would be surprised by the details, because the people concerned and their activities (which have nothing to do with the Troubles) are perfectly respectable. I think icebreaker is right that there is a tendency for secret services to take a particular political line, and that they need to be kept under control. Was it during the Harold Wilson era that they had half the Cabinet under surveillance?
 
I don't deny it's happening, icebreaker - it's just that there's no practical impact on my life because of it, so why would I worry about it? I think the MP xpenses scandal is a greater affront to democracy than civil surveillance, but I couldn't be arsed bothering too much about that either, really.
 
Was it during the Harold Wilson era that they had half the Cabinet under surveillance?
Click to expand...

something like that and was silly

but what resulted from it? nothing....

Labour were elected again and unexpectedly so.. So did it work?
 
Last edited:
Hamm said:
What are the chances of getting 'blown up'?

Are airport controls really justified? If a terrorist wanted to blow up passangers, why not walk on board the 5.25 to Manchester, it couldn't be easier

It is strange the things that are gotten away with when people are paralysed by a mysterious fear of something that has such a minuscule percentage of actually happening
Click to expand...

There is a miniscule percentage of it actually occurring yet thousands of deaths have been caused by a failure to have proper controls in place at airports. Numerous flights have been hi-jacked, blown up, flown into buildings over the years.

The only incident involving a train that I am aware of was London.

If terrorists decided that trains were a good target on a more regular basis than once, then it would be appropriate to put measures in place to safeguard us from that problem.

I have no problem with the additional security at airports because it doesn't really affect me greatly and, to use Clancy-speak, it protects me from a Clear and Present Danger.
 
As does the sifting of web info - I recall years ago working with folks in Northern Ireland and making jokes about bombing people who weren't working properly - the chap on the other end wasn't offended but did ask me not to say words like that on the phone - just in case - you never know who might be listening.

That said, I did think that the recent "alert" involving Yemen was somewhat disingenious.
 
I think Hamm has a point about airport security. The biggest risks presumably concern flights to the UK, US and Israel.

It wouldn't make any sense for Al Qaeda or anyone else to bomb a flight from Prague to Vilnius, for example, or Stockholm to Tampere. Yet it is EU law that all flights are given the same level of security. The main reason for this, I think, is that hub airports like Heathrow with large numbers of transit passengers would not be able to cope unless all passengers arriving there had already been screened.

By the way, the German secret service recently warned that Al Qaeda might be planning attacks on high speed trains, but some people suspect that they have done so in an attempt to justify the surveillance they've been doing.

Another by the way, it's only in the last few years that Eurostar has introduced security checks. I always imagined a bomb in the Channel tunnel was a much more likely risk than the great majority of flights.
 
I take the Eurostar a lot - why don't they need to do liquid checks?

As in, if there is trouble on a plane, there is always the chance of a very quick landing - when you are in that tunnel, you are in there for 30 mins and that is it.
 
Hamm said:
I take the Eurostar a lot - why don't they need to do liquid checks?

As in, if there is trouble on a plane, there is always the chance of a very quick landing - when you are in that tunnel, you are in there for 30 mins and that is it.
Click to expand...

I haven't carried out research - but I wouldn't think you'd be much off 30 minutes for a forced landing for a jet (assuming that you are over land).

Which would bring you back to the fact that checks are easier on trains because there has been limited terrorist activity involving them to date.
 
As in, if there is trouble on a plane, there is always the chance of a very quick landing
Click to expand...

This is a nonsense argument anyway. Hijacks end up as forced landings dont they? Thats the idea ffs. 9/11 was a "forced landing"

Still they could always gently glide down and let everyone off the plane if the alternate bomb goes off mid air instead
 
It wouldn't make any sense for Al Qaeda or anyone else to bomb a flight from Prague to Vilnius, for example, or Stockholm to Tampere.
Click to expand...

he biggest risks presumably concern flights to the UK, US and Israe
Click to expand...
l.

I think the spanish after madrid might think differently. Spain is always seen as an AQ target. I think the italians would after the plot to poison the water system there. Sweden is cited today as a country where islamists are active. France is always on the edge with muslims. Most african countries are vulnerable. Shall we go on? Bali? Think Australia is relaxed?

It suits certain mentalities to believe that only the evil jews and anglo saxons are targets but that is complete bollocks
 
Bradley (Chelsea) Manning gets a 35 year sentence for divulging material of public interest.
Round where I live, proved murderers have been sentenced to as little as 12 years.

This travesty illustrates how much the State doesn't want you to know those things that the State does in your name. (And you do have a right to know; but in the so-called Western Democracies, transparency and accountability is nothing more than a facade).

This out-of-proportion sentence for Manning is really an instrument to deter any future would-be whistleblower. This is how public-spirited and concerned individuals are victimised by the establishment and it's security services, and it will take a very brave person to repeat the exercise in future. The sentence given to Bradley is in a way a sentence of censorship and secrecy for all of us.
It's a bad day for society and commonality.
 
America has far more freedom of information than most european states. God knows how much more than the socialist states we have seen. Agree the sentence is ludicrous though

There is a security line that cannot simply be crossed. Maybe more should be "available" and given that what has been leaked has been bloody boring and mundane (and one in the eye for numerous conspiracy theorists) maybe it should be loosened up because frnakly no one would be bothered anyway

was there one wikileaks revelation that wasnt completely dull?

But there will be stuff which will put lives in danger and there is a line
 
Just googled hijack too

I was very surprised to see that it isn't a case of let's put the plane down at Manchester and let everyone off with some duty free as compensation and a free ticket refund courtesy of al aqueda ltd
 
Last edited:
clivex said:
l.

I think the spanish after madrid might think differently. Spain is always seen as an AQ target. I think the italians would after the plot to poison the water system there. Sweden is cited today as a country where islamists are active. France is always on the edge with muslims. Most african countries are vulnerable. Shall we go on? Bali? Think Australia is relaxed?

It suits certain mentalities to believe that only the evil jews and anglo saxons are targets but that is complete bollocks
Click to expand...

The new Spanish government elected within days of that attack in Madrid pulled their troops out of Iraq. They are at much less risk since then.

Your Sweden link mentions one fire bomb, in 2005 at a polling station for the Iraq election. Shudder.

France undoubtedly is at increased risk since its intervention in Mali.

Australia has been a big supporter of the US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not even Al Qaeda lashes out purely at random, unlike the way you sometimes do.
 
Talking crap as ever. Bin laden stated that Spain is to be "re-Conquered"

But It suits your narrative to believe that the states attacked by al quaeda are deserving victims of course
 
Last edited:
Clivex, you'll probably be chuffed that the transgender, reedy, turncoat clipe has chosen the name 'Chelsea', I expect?

:lol:
 
you constantly play the line that aqs attacks are due to action taken by "western" countries (as above) . I wonder what the malians and nigerians think of that?

Either way thats simply not true in any shape or form

Their jihad is against our very existence. Read what they say. Spain is a prime example with bin laden constantly rumbling on about the loss of "their" land god knows how long ago

they will hang palestine and iraq as reasons for their attacks with the hope of gaining wider support in the muslim world (although Jordan ... and that can be added to the above list... was a spectacular own goal) but ultimately their belief is that everyone and anyone who is not under their control must be killed
 
Back
Top