Supreme Novices Hurdle 10th March 2015

Double Handful

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Less than 3 weeks to go now to that festival Roar at 1:30pm on Tuesday the 10th ! With the preview nights in full flow already, I thought it might be time to start some individual threads for the different races. So first out the gates is The Supreme Novices Hurdle. I think Tanlic mentioned on another thread how notoriously difficult a race this can be to pick the winner. My last and ONLY winner in this race was Sausalito Bay in 2000. But I remain optimistic more than ever that surely this is my year for this race. I have to be due!

Anyway, only one place to start and that is Douvan. Everything I know would normally tell me to oppose this horse. He has had 2 runs in Ireland since joining Willie. Both right handed on heavy ground in small fields and winning on the bridle. Granted he has looked very quick and slick at his hurdles so far but those tests are completely different in every sense to what he will face in the Supreme. So the fact he is 2/1 Fav makes him very much the talking horse. But Boy is that Talk positive. Ruby and Willie both light up when speaking about him and I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Ruby saying he is quicker than Vautour. Even any comments we are seeing so far from the Preview Nights are extremely positive. It certainly seems you would want to be brave to lay him.

However, short priced favourites have a bad record in this and there are a couple of other little things that stuck out to me. Let’s go back to September. Douvan was not even the No.1 Ricci Supreme Novices horse. Allez Colombieres was the early Ante post favourite for the Supreme. His First Race was a Grade 1 were he unfortunately met his demise. Nichols Canyon first race was a Grade 1. However Dovan’s first race was only a 7k Novice Hurdle. And his next race then was a Grade 2. He is yet to even run in a Grade 1 race – yet Nichols Canyon is a 2 time Grade 1 winner (Would be 3 but for UR). Now, of course Douvan could have improved more than they thought from the beginning of the season – But at one point in time I believe he was the number 3 Novice Hurdler in the yard behind AC & NC. No matter what way I try and look at this, he is just too short in price for me. Cue Douvan hacking up on the bridle!

I'd like to see Nichols Canyon going for this and Shaneshill to the Neptune for selfish reasons....I think I'll be waiting until closer to the time to be nailing my colours to any other mast! Anyone have any strong views on Douvan or alternatively fancy something under the radar at a big price?
 
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like yourself I would like to see Douvan with more experience.
Nichols Canyon very impressive the last day with a great attitude.
Sizing John was very good at Christmas ,won very easily and again has the right attitude.
He may well be the value without the favourite.
I have no handle on the English novices though.
 
I have gone with the idea that its better value to back Jollyallan e/way ,than go with the fav. I believe hes a improving 150 horse and will be very surprised if he is out of the frame.
 
You've pretty much summed up my feelings DH.

I wanted to be against Douvan and have been trying to find something to take him on with but dangers appear thin on the ground and based on everything I'm hearing coming out of Ireland he is the real deal.

L'ami Serge, being by Kings Theater, is likely to be suited by the better ground but he's won what were effectively two 3 runner races since his admittedly impressive Gerry Fielden win and in one of those Emerging Talent fell when looking a real threat.

2/1 Douvan could look a real bargain in just under three weeks time and if PP do offer an enhanced price or money back for a place finish then I daresay I will yet again succumb to the hype of a short priced jolly in the first. At least I had a 16/1 voucher about MTOY when he was just touched off. To win of course and no, I hadn't laid any off :rolleyes:
 
Mullins has a useful line through Killultagh Vic with Lami Serge, ties in with Shaneshill who is three times the price, he would be my each way play
 
My concern with Shaneshill is just how good was last years bumper? and he wasn't good enough for that.

It's looking pretty poor to me in hindsight.
 
Negative comments by Mullins on Shaneshill on the previews thread yesterday.

I plan to do some of the figures for the more prominent in the market horses over the next few days but I wouldn't want to get involved with any bets until the day when all sorts of offers and improved prices will kick in.

Remember too that at a meeting as important as Cheltenham if you fancy an outsider you'll probably get significantly bigger odds with the tote.
 
Lami serge for me,two facile wins on soft and he will improve for the better ground.NJH has a great bunch of novices by all accounts this year and only this one campaigned for the supreme,that in itself says it all.Also NJH face to Munir after the Tolworth,a picture tells a thousand stories....the I told you so look.
If Nichols canyon were to go for this I'd be interested as he reminded me so much of vatour in the Deloitte.unfortunately I think he is Neptune bound.Douvan might be a monster,an aeroplane,catches pigeons or the best novice they have had but so was Pont Alexandre.I am on L'ami serge at 14s and I'm not suggesting to back him at 4's but Douvan at 7/4 is a joke.Jollyallan is the value there at present,more to come from him and they really think a lot of him.
 
It's one scary race DH. Douvan looks the part but as I pointed out in another thread so did Dunguib and Cue Card.

I'd be more inclined to get stuck in if it wasn't the first race.

The problem being unless you have backed him AP you have to put on a decent amount of cash to make a few bob.

I never read what WM said but saw a headline him saying something like he's the nicest novice he's ever sent to Cheltenham.

Considering Faugheen and Vautour both looked like the next coming last year I'm surprised Douvan isn't 1/2 fav.

NJH thinks a lot of L'ami Serge but I get the impression he's been careful where he has run him
I would imagine the reason for that is to give him time to improve as he lost 6 out of 6 in France
He'll no doubt run well but I have a nagging doubt about him being good enough.

It's really hard to oppose Douvan but I'm backing/backed Quewy ew. Who will ride I have no idea but hopefully it will be Noel Fehily if Ferguson send him here and not to the Neptune
I will most likely back Douvan on the day so that if he wins I will come out slightly in front but I'd rather risk my first big bet on the more experience Faugheen later in the day.

I wouldn't like to be a bookie if Douvan does win as he is bound to be the first leg of hundreds if not thousands of multiple bets with Un De Sceaux, Faugheen, Vautour and Annie Power.
If all 5 were to win there might be more than a few betting shops come up for sale.

We go on about PN and NJH but this guy has an army of class NH horses second to none.

Qewy EW

Saver Douvan
 
Douvan is one that I instinctively want to Lay in the opener......but Timeform have whacked the large P against his rating, and I confess it's making me hesitate, coming as it does with the highest rating in the race too.

FWIW, I have backed Qewy each-way, but with not a huge amount of confidence, it has to be said.
 
you get the impression that the Mullins yard think Douvan is going to be great, but many great horses are beaten in the Supreme. it's a very hard race to win and he's much too short atm.

looks like Nicholls Canyon goes neptune.
 
Agreed Tiggers but look at the horses behind him in the betting. A p*ss poor bunch for the race in all probability and only the Henderson horse looks to offer a real threat and he was a maiden from six attempts in France and has beaten a total of three finishers in level weights events over here.

At this point in time, this is far removed from a vintage Supreme.
 
Remember the books often do stupid offers on this race. For example if you fancy something other than the fav, someone will probably do 'money back if douvan wins'.


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Agree with a lot that has already been said. I always put more effort into researching this race than any other. God knows why!

Douvan is very short for what he's achieved when you compare him to Vautour last year. I'd be inclined to oppose him subject to bookie offers, but as already highlighted the supporting cast isn't exactly Oscar material.

After going back and through the form I'd put a good word in for three of them.

Shaneshill is obviously capable of more than his last run. I don't know if something went amiss during that race but we haven't seen him for a while and coupling that with some negative comments from the yard I'd oppose him.

Alvisio Ville may well have been involved in the hottest race in Ireland this year. He travelled like the winner for much of that race but was found wanting at the business end. He ran as if a step back in trip may suit but he may end up being a bit of a bridle horse. He's too much of a risk. Nicholls Canyon isn't really worth mentioning on this thread because he's going for the Neptune.

Jollyallan has the best form in the book IMO. Essentially that equates to his last run but it would suggest that he's very close to what is required to win a Supreme. Garde La Victoire was a top top handicapper and if Jollyallan hadn't made a mess of the 2nd last I believe he would have beaten him. The third that day also has some form which ties in very nicely with Peace & Co. He looks like the one to me.
 
Douvan is one that I instinctively want to Lay in the opener......but Timeform have whacked the large P against his rating, and I confess it's making me hesitate, coming as it does with the highest rating in the race too.

FWIW, I have backed Qewy each-way, but with not a huge amount of confidence, it has to be said.

You can be more confident if he is still going well coming down the hill........6 lengths in 14-16 strides he put between himself and Cardinal Walter who is no slouch.

The only question is can he produce the same turn of foot if they go a strong gallop because the Newbury time would suggest it turned into a sprint.

Douvan's time was fast in comparison to the other races on both his runs whereas Qewy's was very slow. Think we're up against it but he's no 20/1 shot in my book
 
Douvan is one that I instinctively want to Lay in the opener......but Timeform have whacked the large P against his rating, and I confess it's making me hesitate, coming as it does with the highest rating in the race too.

FWIW, I have backed Qewy each-way, but with not a huge amount of confidence, it has to be said.

You can be more confident if he is still going well coming down the hill........6 lengths in 14-16 strides he put between himself and Cardinal Walter who is no slouch.

The only question is can he produce the same turn of foot if they go a strong gallop because the Newbury time would suggest it turned into a sprint.

Douvan's time was fast in comparison to the other races on both his runs whereas Qewy's was very slow. Think we're up against it but he's no 20/1 shot in my book
 
Seedling has been backed with a few firms today for Warren Greatrex.

I reckon you could make a case that if he was trained by a Willie Mullins he wouldn't be 20's + for this.

He'll need to improve but hasn't done anything wrong this season, if anything he's improved.

He gave weight and a beating to Some Plan and Padge. They have both ran well and won since then, so I reckon Seedling is worth that rating of 149.

25/1 has gone now and this one has the scope to shorten in the betting, imo.
 
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17 Left in:
[TABLE="width: 200"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]1. Alvisio Ville
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Aso
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Bentelimar
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Douvan
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. Jollyallan
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. L'Ami Serge
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. McKinley
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Nichols Canyon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Okotoks
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. Outlander
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11. Qewy
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12. Seedling
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13. Shaneshill
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14. Sizing John
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15. Some Plan
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16. Tell Us More.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17. Velvet Maker
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
It will be a relatively small field by the time some of these are declared for the Neptune and the handicap instead.
 
Bentelimar at 33/1 NRNB with Ladbrokes now is absolutely massive ! Great chacne of getting into the places imo.
Ladbrokes not showing on Oddschecker as NRNB yet, but if you go to their site directly they are NRNB on the Supreme anyway!
 
There was only a dozen turned out when MTOY and CF ran in it......This horse of Mullins is enough to scare anything away but fortunately they have all heard these stories before.

I just wonder what kind of beast this horse is........."The nicest horse we've ever sent to Cheltenham"....Scares the hell out of me.

L'Ami Serge is a machine and not put a foot wrong but his best form wouldn't be any stronger than Douvan's best.

Just looking at them Douvan looks the classier beast when in action and L'ami Serge isn't the greatest of jumpers.

Madness to have all your sheckles on Douvan but madness not to back him if he really is that good.

I am sticking to Qewy ew and covering my stake by backing Douvan.......I expect the latter will win no harm done if he does but you never know.
 
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