The 2021 Grand National

barjon said:
I make it 10 out of the first 11. Surely, you can’t just say they’ve got the better horses - the handicap is supposed to sort that out. Better prepared? I think it must be so.
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Amazing, to think that after L'Escargot in1975 there was a gap of 24 years to Bobbyjo in 1999 for the next Irish trained winner..
 
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1947, 1953,54,55,58,75,99.
2000. 2003,2005,2006,2007,2016, 2018, 2019,2021 .
A bit like buses our Irish trained GN winners come.

Credit to Shark Hanlon for getting Rachel started; he gave a wonderful interview to Des Cahill on Saturday Sport RTE Radio 1 this evening near the end of the show.
Credit to Henry who encourages all his jockeys: I believe when Johnny Burke got the Potts retainer Henry praised him after every ride whether he finished first or sixth, once jockey and horse came home safe they had another day to battle.
Had Chris's Dream not fallen four out he would not have been far away either; some return for three runners.
Has any trainer had a one two in the race before ? ( 1908 )
That RTE 9 o'clock news opened with the Grand National finish tells how big a deal this is.
Since Shergar's kidnap has a racing story been the lead item ?
I have posted negatively about racing's future on here before but Rachel's win will hopefully postpone any negative publicity for the foreseeable future and hopefully racing will build on it.

The acid test will be if one of our non Irish members here will post a letter to "Rachel, Ireland " and see if it gets delivered.
Arkle , Ireland found it's destination ; Twink, Ireland would have also.
 
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One thing I did that I'd never done before was to take my ratings table in order and highlight the Irish entries. Of the top 13 ratings, nine were Irish (the others were Cloth Cap, Give Me A Copper, Minellacelebration and Sub Lieutenant) and included the first, second, third, fifth, eighth, ninth and eleventh. Blaklion was next.

Then I heard Kevin Blake mention that you could get 50/1 an Irish 1-4. I really fancied a bit of that but could not see it anywhere.

I'm not so sure it's a matter of the Irish being 'better handicapped' per se. I think Irish handicaps are more competitive because they tend to be more heavily competed and, especially in the last 12 months, much more valuable.

As wilsonl said in another thread, it's about getting the approach to evaluating the form correct. It wasn't the most profitable National for me - I ended up backing even more than normal - but it was the best ever result for my figures, I reckon. I hope I will learn again from this year's result and use it to cut down the number of bets next year without compromising the quality.
 
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I’ll probably watch next year, but the race is shite now. It used to get my blood pumping, and edge of the seat stuff. National used to he one of the sporting highlights of the year, its utter tosh now. Bechers brook drop used to proper fascinate me, i could jump it now.

Sp’s of 4/1 and lower will become a norm as well such as the ease of the fences now. Used to be a slog. Now I think you just need to he well in at the weights and have a clear round jumping.

Gigginstown must be wondering what if, Id have had the Tiger winning that. That said, they probably dont give a bollocks :lol:
 
I've re-watched the race just the once so far but plan to do so several times over the next few days.

But you'd have to say backers of Any Second Now are entitled to wonder what might have been. I didn't realise how much ground he'd lost when hampered. I knew he'd been hampered but ended up watching the wrong white cap and thought he hadn't lost too much ground. He must have lost at least twice the amount he was beaten by.

Hopefully the race doesn't leave its mark on him. If he fancies another go at the fences he'll be the one to beat next year. He won't go up much for yesterday.
 
Double J said:
I’ll probably watch next year, but the race is shite now. It used to get my blood pumping, and edge of the seat stuff. National used to he one of the sporting highlights of the year, its utter tosh now. Bechers brook drop used to proper fascinate me, i could jump it now.

Sp’s of 4/1 and lower will become a norm as well such as the ease of the fences now. Used to be a slog. Now I think you just need to he well in at the weights and have a clear round jumping.

Gigginstown must be wondering what if, Id have had the Tiger winning that. That said, they probably dont give a bollocks :lol:
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Just another long distance handicap chase. One run at an all out gallop. What has gone is the need and talk for bravery. There was some kudos to jockeys and horses for completing the course. It said something about the horse's and jockeys mentality. Bookies and media will need to hype it up each year but just about everything that made it what it was, without the need for hype, is gone.
 
It’s certainly not the same race any longer, but it still has it’s attractions and it does take some winning. No longer the “ultimate challenge” for horse and rider since it has been made safe - just like Formula1. Much of the excitement came from the danger, but I don’t miss the attrition rate one bit and happy to accept the race for what it is now.
 
Having fully recovered after backing all the wrong horses yesterday (I had framed the race around BDM, Cloth Cap and Any Second Now), I can appreciate the race for what is now. I know it doesn’t pose the challenges of previous years (or the “horrors”, depending on your point of view), but it is still a unique challenge. Forty horses, running for 4 and a quarter miles, and one trainer (Nicky Richards), saying his horse’s race was lost within the first furlong! The race is still a thrill-a-fence, especially now that we have fewer fallers. The race attracts so many good horses these days, that it is genuinely the best handicap of the season. Throw in the element that of lottery, and it’s easy to see why it still survives and now actually thrives. Rachael winning is exactly what the sport needs.

I didn’t back Minella Times, purely - without really looking - because I thought the horse’s real chance would have been 20/1 if another jockey had been riding. Terribly dismissive, I know, but I have used the same logic to avoid backing Dettori, Piggott and AP horses over the years. The truth is that Rachael IS the extra factor you need to get the best out of a horse. We’ve all had time to study her now, and my own thoughts are that she just presents her horse to win at exactly the right time. She clearly is the difference now, when riding a horse that is equally matched with others; she has the unique “feel” for horse that all the great jockeys have, as well as having a great tactical brain.

So, all in all, the race was a great one to watch in its own right, but will have done so much for the sport in general, too.
 
I'm pretty much in the same camp as Len.

It is still a terrific race. No other race would ever get all my family to come together for a huge party and raise mass hysteria in one household. They are not racing fans, especially Mrs O. She hates it. But she and Orchidette and I sat in relatively controlled thrall for the fifteen minutes leading up to the race and through to the aftermath.

Being feminists, they were pleased Rachel won it but they were seriously calling out the TV people for their fawning shite.

I know the other family members had their own get-togethers and the traditional laps of honour round the coffee table were shared on social media.

The only other sporting event that would do that would be a Scottish Cup Final involving our team.

The race itself isn't what it once was but it's still one helluvan event.

And it's still usually won by a very good horse.
 
But the "knees-ups" cary on because of habit. I realise racing has to try and sell itself to "outsiders" but I have never been attracted to the hype. BBC with David Coleman wearing a trilby he never donned on any other day of the year with their drawn out build-up sadly, for them, interrupted by 'other races'. I am relieved that the race has become less attritional and some of the "danger" has been removed, but even now I wonder whether any race and the associated 'fame' of winning it would persuade me to run a horse in it. I'm a proud 'snowflake'!
 
Raising the value of the race to £1m was great for it.

It is a better-quality race for it and better horses are perhaps better equipped to cope with the demands.

Long gone, it seems, are the days when my ideal candidate was a 150+ horse running off around 137/138. Nowadays you need to be at least 145 just to make the cut. So you're now looking for a potential 160 (or more) horse. That's almost good enough to run in a Gold Cup. (As an outsider, yes, but you still get horses in the 150s running in it.)

Just another Saturday handicap? Not one bit.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Raising the value of the race to £1m was great for it.

It is a better-quality race for it and better horses are perhaps better equipped to cope with the demands.

Long gone, it seems, are the days when my ideal candidate was a 150+ horse running off around 137/138. Nowadays you need to be at least 145 just to make the cut. So you're now looking for a potential 160 (or more) horse. That's almost good enough to run in a Gold Cup. (As an outsider, yes, but you still get horses in the 150s running in it.)

Just another Saturday handicap? Not one bit.
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It is the most valuable saturday handicap of the year, and a better race for it. Three times the worth of the Hennessey. But that's all it is. At least Ruby has all week talked about the need for Aintree horses now to jump through the top of fences rather than clearing them, being the traditional good jumper doesnt help you anymore. You have all the same variables at play (ground, pace, jockeyship) but other than the largest field of the year, there is nothing else to it.

First year that none of my family had a bet on it and none watched it.
 
HawkWing said:
First year that none of my family had a bet on it and none watched it.
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But was that for the reasons you mention or because the bookies weren't open?

I must have spent two hours yesterday putting on 50p ew bets for non-racing family members. It was almost embarrassing until a message came up from one bookie 'please wait while we refer your bet to one of our traders'.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
 
I have been putting bets on for the in-laws for a good while now, but even with a lockdown not interested this year. I'm sure if i reminded them, they might have thrown something on. Dont think course alterations or horse deaths are the reason, just not the pop culture occasion that it was. Just like all racing really.

"The race that stops the globe" said Ed Chamberlain yesterday. Not sure if it ever came close to that but even so its only a nostalgia for what it once was.
 
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HawkWing said:
"The race that stops the globe" said Ed Chamberlain yesterday. Not sure if it ever came close to that but even so its only a nostalgia for what it once was.
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Just so typical of the fawning shite Chamberlin comes out with.

"Kids come up to me in the street and ask me about you [to Rachel]..." (or words to that effect).

Garbage.

As if kids in the street come up to a total stranger and ask him stuff they don't know the first thing about.

I imagine there would have been a decent TV audience yesterday but nowhere near as many as could reasonably have been expected. Old Phil the Greek popping his clogs will have diverted a large section of potential viewers to the near-blanket obit coverage on the other channels.

When Madge pops hers I'll need to get out of the country for a couple of weeks.
 
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HawkWing said:
I have been putting bets on for the in-laws for a good while now, but even with a lockdown not interested this year. I'm sure if i reminded them, they might have thrown something on. Dont think course alterations or horse deaths are the reason, just not the pop culture occasion that it was. Just like all racing really.

"The race that stops the globe" said Ed Chamberlain yesterday. Not sure if it ever came close to that but even so its only a nostalgia for what it once was.
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Well, HW, you don’t seem to think much of Rachel (falls off easily, over-hyped) nor of the National she’s just won. Cheer up, mon brave :).

I think if the National of yesterday had only just appeared on the scene it would be regarded as a pretty impressive addition to the programme.
 
barjon said:
Well, HW, you don’t seem to think much of Rachel (falls off easily, over-hyped) nor of the National she’s just won. Cheer up, mon brave :).

I think if the National of yesterday had only just appeared on the scene it would be regarded as a pretty impressive addition to the programme.
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No. I think Rachael is as good as there is out there currently. I'd rate Jack Kennedy as better myself, not wouldnt have many more ahead of her. Its not a coincidence that her horses end up in the best positions in most races. That doesn't mean she cant be criticised and that she doesn't fall off easily, and more easily than worse jockeys.

Not sure why its part of this discussion unless its that me downplaying the national in general is due to making a point about her. If anything the race was less of a test a few years back. The all out pace that the race is run at means that horses give up exhausted now. 15 is a pretty low completion for a g/s national. Its not something that just came out of the ether at 5.30 yesterday.
 
HawkWing said:
No. I think Rachael is as good as there is out there currently. I'd rate Jack Kennedy as better myself, not wouldnt have many more ahead of her. Its not a coincidence that her horses end up in the best positions in most races. That doesn't mean she cant be criticised and that she doesn't fall off easily, and more easily than worse jockeys.

Not sure why its part of this discussion unless its that me downplaying the national in general is due to making a point about her. If anything the race was less of a test a few years back. The all out pace that the race is run at means that horses give up exhausted now. 15 is a pretty low completion for a g/s national. Its not something that just came out of the ether at 5.30 yesterday.
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Just pulling your leg, HW :).
 
I’m still feeling underwhelmed by it and can’t quite work out why. Having all of the annual grand National hatred spewing out on Facebook pages etc doesn’t help. I was going to keep quiet but have ended up getting embroiled in several arguments. I should know better. At this rate I won’t have any friends left and I don’t even have the solace of being able to go racing and being in my spiritual home. The venom aimed at racing is getting to me.
 
Hey, ho, everything will get banned in the end because it’s too dangerous. Horse racing, football, rugby, swimming, canoeing, skiing, mountain walking, cycling - the lot. Won’t matter, though, because technology will replace it all with “virtual reality experience” and we can all sit on our sofas and fool our brains into believing we are actually there or doing it. Wanna win the Grand National - dial 5. Wanna fall at the Chair - dial 7. Just wanna watch from the Grandstand - dial 1. Mind you, Government edict won’t let you sit for more than two hours, ‘cos that’s dangerous, too.
 
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