The 2022 Dublin Racng Festival

Big Bucks had been beaten before unbeaten run; the others unbeaten from debut start ; hence the fuss.
Bula's unbeaten run finished at Leopardstown in 1972 Sweeps hurdle behind Captain Christy or was he beaten in previous start anyone ?
 
Didn't Bula come through handicaps?

Aside - did Sea Pigeon end up unbeaten in handicaps, Flat or hurdles?
 
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He won Supreme Novice hurdle as it was in 1970 ; but ran in handicaps as that was the way then I imagine.
Did Into View defeat him in a Sandown handicap Hurdle at some stage , before or after Sweeps Hurdle ?
Sea Pigeon's race record is 16 wins from 45 flat runs and 21 from 40 over hurdles, carrying up to 10-5 to victory in flat handicaps.
I remember him winning three handicap hurdles, one at Aintree with 12-6 and the Scottish Champion Hurdle twice, a limited handicap when Golden Cygnet fell and possibly the following year also.
I doubt if he ran in Royal Doulton Hurdle May Day Bank holiday with Chester the following week but stand corrected.
Any handicap defeats were most likely in his pre Easterby days , his early career not on my radar !
Please feel free to enlighten me.
 
Sea Pigeon

1977

Champion hurdle 4th
Allied Manufacturing HH 1st
Scottish Champion Hudle 1st non handicap
Chester Cup 1st


1978

Champion Hurdle 2nd
Scottish Champion Hurdle 1st handicap
Royal Doulton 8th
Chester Cup 1st

1979

Champion Hurdle 2nd
Aintree fell & remounted for 4th
Scottish Champion Hurdle 2nd handicap
Chester Cup

The Royal Doulton in 1978 was his first defeat in a handicap hurdle. I could remember some of this but checked the Timeform annuals for the rest of the details, my memory not being as good as Eddie's.
 
edgt said:
Big Bucks had been beaten before unbeaten run; the others unbeaten from debut start ; hence the fuss.
Bula's unbeaten run finished at Leopardstown in 1972 Sweeps hurdle behind Captain Christy or was he beaten in previous start anyone ?
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Canasta Lad beat Bula in the same season as he lost his unbeaten run which was at Newbury in a race that Persian War had won but as far as I know no longer exists. Can't for the life of me remeber the name of the horse.

On his 3rd attempt in the 3rd Champion Hurdle the ride he got from Paul Kellaway was questionable to say the least and rumours were plentiful. However Comedy of Errors put a lot of minds to rest when he beat Bula again soon after,

Paul Kelleway who also rode Crisp to win the QMCC retired soon after which again stirred up the same rumours among his fellow jockeys.......The father of Gay how dare they insinuate anything underhanded took place LOL
 
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edgt said:
Big Bucks had been beaten before unbeaten run; the others unbeaten from debut start ; hence the fuss.
Bula's unbeaten run finished at Leopardstown in 1972 Sweeps hurdle behind Captain Christy or was he beaten in previous start anyone ?
Click to expand...

He lost his unbeaten 13 race record the season before. As to Do's question of handicaps there were more than a few when Bula carried big weights against some high class animals

His most famous win apart from the Champion Hudles was in the Benson & Hedges when he jumped the last in 6th place and giving away lumps of weight took off like a rocket
and won from an impossible position.
 
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While accepting that these things can't be taken literally, there was next to nothing between the Champion Hurdle and the Liffey. At one point, the handicap was up to 15 lengths in front but Honeysuckle pulled that and more back between three out and the last (bearing in mind the handicap didn't jump the second last). However, Call Me Lyreen may well have run faster from the last to the line than did Honeysuckle.

That would back up my own visual impression that Honeysuckle wasn't really going away after the last and that, if anything, the others were closing her down again. I think her big move from three out to the last killed the race. If Blackmore hangs on to her until the turn for home at Cheltenham that surge will probably be too difficult for anything else to withstand.
 
Desert Orchid said:
While accepting that these things can't be taken literally, there was next to nothing between the Champion Hurdle and the Liffey. At one point, the handicap was up to 15 lengths in front but Honeysuckle pulled that and more back between three out and the last (bearing in mind the handicap didn't jump the second last). However, Call Me Lyreen may well have run faster from the last to the line than did Honeysuckle.
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Firstly, CML did run faster from the last to the line than both Honeysuckle and Sir G. Again, that can't be taken too literally. It's a consequence of what happened during the rest of the races. It's not as though CML was forcing that strong pace in the handicap. He was held up about eight lengths off it and it looks like it was a brilliant bit of pace judgment by Russell.

Honeysuckle, as I said before, hit the front three out and kicked for home shortly after, turning a four-second deficit into a two-second advantage by the last, compared with the lead in the handicap. She paid for that effort up the run-in.

Sir Gerhard's race followed a similar pattern but he went slightly faster through the middle third than Heaven Help Us, therefore faster again than Honeysuckle. Honeysuckle was slightly faster than Sir G from three out to the last, which they crossed in more or less the same time and they both covered the run-in in about the same time. Again, not surprising.

The leaders in the handicap fell away, as might be expected but they gave CML a brilliant tow into the business end of the race. The handicap is always top form for its level and I'll be looking for plenty of winners to frank it. Anything that made the pace will deserve a good mark-up. The closer to the front they finished the better the mark-up. I'm off to check them now.
 
New ratings

Minella Cocooner 143
Vauban 145
Blue Lord 157
Good Time Jonny 138
Conflated 166
A Wave Of The Sea 149
 
Some of the other new ratings

Hurdles

Sir Gerhard 150
Minella Crooner 139
Party Central 135 +13

Chases

Saint Sam 152
Vanillier 148
Gailllard du Mesnil 147
Dunvegan 162 +6
Grange Walk 140 +3
Foxy Jacks 139 +5
 
I hope connections of Dunvegan spend the 28K wisely because he’s just put himself into no mans land.

I thought the handicappers were going to stop punishing horses too badly for running (relatively) close to top class animals in those type of Grade 1s.

Dunvegan’s received a pretty literally interpreted increase there so no wonder the majority of G1s are small fields nowadays with trainers being scared of things like that.
 
Outsider said:
Honeysuckle and chacon both to win 6/4

Both to win by 5L or more 4/1

Skybet.
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Well done that turned out to be a great bet. But looking at some offers like Without Honeysuckle in the Champion Hurdle. Take Tommy's Oscar at 14/1 100 ew and you are actually unless there's a miracle you are backing him at odds on.

Considering every horse that finished 2nd to him has run like a stuffed pig since should tell you everything about his chances.

His owners/trainers need a kick up the ass for stupidity.

There is no value anywhere in the Champion Hurdle and those trying to find some are chancers who cant count for sh*t IMO.
 
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Yeah that’s a shame for Dunvegan as that rules him out of the Grand Annual (if not literally then effectively)

All in a race where CPS put up a time 11s slower than when winning the same race a couple of years ago on similar ground (at least according to the official description)


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It was appalling. First populated gig in 2 years with a new high profile CEO and it was close to a riot for the bad service on Saturday. And that was just the coffee docks.
 
Yes, when I did my own rudimentary comparison I timed it from (as best as I could judge) the moment they passed the marker at the start and came up with slightly different figures but in the same ball park.

The mare was some way below her best on my figures. I wouldn't take the time comparison with TSL literally. (I know you won't.)
 
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