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The 2025 Derby

Coach miguel said:
Curragh very much a front running track. If its good to soft Lambourn will take all the beating especially as I can see a pacemaker in there. With Jan brugheul and Los Angeles in the stable hard to see where he will go after that bar the leger.
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Where's the opposition going to come from? It's hard to imagine anything that ran on Saturday faring any better (regardless of whatever mark-up they might have got) so it might just be a case of repeat and rinse the opposition.

Re the Dante, is it possible that they had harder races than the data suggested and they bounced? It's genuinely hard to believe the form can be that bad.
 
Ian_Davies said:
If racing moved with the times The Derby would have become a 1m2f contest years ago.

Gone are the days when a half-decent winner at Epsom automatically mopped up the Irish equivalent before targetting the King George.

Nowadays, if at all possible, the winners want to convince the breeding world their Derby winner isn't just a prospective Jumps sire by getting that 1m2f Group 1 win into him, especially if he hadn't won a Group 1 at shorter prior to Epsom.

They might have a job on doing that with Lambourn, so I actually think there's a fair chance they might end up taking The Curragh>Ascot route with him.

Like....The Minstrel, Troy, Shergar, Generous, Galileo - feel the nostalgia! 😂
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That is the conundrum breeders have. They want to win the Derby but don't want to appear to be a stayer as 10f horses are all the rage. Maybe it will change if we get a brilliant Derby winner in the next few years.
 
Without Coolmore to support it the Derby would already be a 10f race by now.

Maybe the Curragh version should drop in distance instead. It would give Epsom winners an easier opportunity to win a Group 1 at 10f than in an all aged race. And maybe the French horses might start turning up again.
 
Grey said:
Without Coolmore to support it the Derby would already be a 10f race by now.

Maybe the Curragh version should drop in distance instead. It would give Epsom winners an easier opportunity to win a Group 1 at 10f than in an all aged race. And maybe the French horses might start turning up again.
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The Galileo effect has finally passed. Coolmore won’t dominate the next ten years like they did the last. The Curragh has bigger issues—there was hardly anyone there for Guineas weekend.
 
There’s nothing new about thin crowds at the Curragh, even before the rebuild.

Any ordinary racegoer, as opposed to the inner circle housed in boxes upstairs, could have told them that the Curragh was a very uncomfortable place to be in bad weather, even in mid-summer. The stands face into the full force of the prevailing winds sweeping across the unbroken expanse of the Curragh plain (a feature which can be glorious on a clement day).

The clean lines of the new design look great but the new stand leaves racegoers even more exposed to the elements than before.

The rebuilt parade ring, which was originally too small, is now too big. Horses on the far side of it are miles away. And there is no general public access to the pre-parade ring.

There were other issues after the rebuild which set them off on the wrong foot, such as the attempt to double and even triple prices for previous loyal badge holders (they said they had lost or thrown out their database of customers at the old Curragh) and poor traffic management.

But these are separate issues from the future of the Irish Derby. The race had a very useful role for a time as the place where the Epsom and Chantilly winners might meet, but this niche was lost when the French Derby dropped in trip to 10f and the Grand Prix de Paris became a 12f race. The best way for the Irish Derby to reclaim its previous role as the deciding rubber for top middle distance 3yos would be to drop it to 10f. It should ideally be included in a triple crown bonus package that would take in Epsom and the St Leger. Guineas winners could claim an even bigger bonus for winning the sweep of classics.

Please don’t disturb me, I’m enjoying my dreams.
 
Grey said:
There’s nothing new about thin crowds at the Curragh, even before the rebuild.

Any ordinary racegoer, as opposed to the inner circle housed in boxes upstairs, could have told them that the Curragh was a very uncomfortable place to be in bad weather, even in mid-summer. The stands face into the full force of the prevailing winds sweeping across the unbroken expanse of the Curragh plain (a feature which can be glorious on a clement day).

The clean lines of the new design look great but the new stand leaves racegoers even more exposed to the elements than before.

The rebuilt parade ring, which was originally too small, is now too big. Horses on the far side of it are miles away. And there is no general public access to the pre-parade ring.

There were other issues after the rebuild which set them off on the wrong foot, such as the attempt to double and even triple prices for previous loyal badge holders (they said they had lost or thrown out their database of customers at the old Curragh) and poor traffic management.

But these are separate issues from the future of the Irish Derby. The race had a very useful role for a time as the place where the Epsom and Chantilly winners might meet, but this niche was lost when the French Derby dropped in trip to 10f and the Grand Prix de Paris became a 12f race. The best way for the Irish Derby to reclaim its previous role as the deciding rubber for top middle distance 3yos would be to drop it to 10f. It should ideally be included in a triple crown bonus package that would take in Epsom and the St Leger. Guineas winners could claim an even bigger bonus for winning the sweep of classics.

Please don’t disturb me, I’m enjoying my dreams.
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Wasn't there serious discussions about dropping it to 10f around a decade ago? The Irish Derby used to be a marquee day out but now it's pretty much dead.
 
Sounds like very poor management. Bit like the Jockey Club with it's racecourses. They just don't get it. The fact that children get charged £70 to access the parade ring at Epsom for the Derby is ridiculous. Most courses allow them in for free. Whereas they could be making it a family day out and encouraging racegoers of the future, they are making it eye-wateringly expensive.
 
jinnyj said:
Sounds like very poor management. Bit like the Jockey Club with it's racecourses. They just don't get it. The fact that children get charged £70 to access the parade ring at Epsom for the Derby is ridiculous. Most courses allow them in for free. Whereas they could be making it a family day out and encouraging racegoers of the future, they are making it eye-wateringly expensive.
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Agreed!
They can't treat every big raceday like Ascot, where you can guarantee that people are prepared to pay through the nose to be there and dress up.
The Derby was always known as the people's day out. I think they should be playing on that side of it. Keep some expensive areas for the top hats, sure... But maximize affordable access.
 
I envy Simon living in Dore, on the edge of the Peak District, on nice weather days like this - as a former adjoining Totley resident I need to give this a read.
 
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Grey said:
There’s nothing new about thin crowds at the Curragh, even before the rebuild.

Any ordinary racegoer, as opposed to the inner circle housed in boxes upstairs, could have told them that the Curragh was a very uncomfortable place to be in bad weather, even in mid-summer. The stands face into the full force of the prevailing winds sweeping across the unbroken expanse of the Curragh plain (a feature which can be glorious on a clement day).

The clean lines of the new design look great but the new stand leaves racegoers even more exposed to the elements than before.

The rebuilt parade ring, which was originally too small, is now too big. Horses on the far side of it are miles away. And there is no general public access to the pre-parade ring.

There were other issues after the rebuild which set them off on the wrong foot, such as the attempt to double and even triple prices for previous loyal badge holders (they said they had lost or thrown out their database of customers at the old Curragh) and poor traffic management.

But these are separate issues from the future of the Irish Derby. The race had a very useful role for a time as the place where the Epsom and Chantilly winners might meet, but this niche was lost when the French Derby dropped in trip to 10f and the Grand Prix de Paris became a 12f race. The best way for the Irish Derby to reclaim its previous role as the deciding rubber for top middle distance 3yos would be to drop it to 10f. It should ideally be included in a triple crown bonus package that would take in Epsom and the St Leger. Guineas winners could claim an even bigger bonus for winning the sweep of classics.

Please don’t disturb me, I’m enjoying my dreams.
Click to expand...
I emailed The Curragh earlier this year with a proposal to run a 50 seater bus to one weekend meeting a month -they offered me a group rate for tickets but didn't really get it.
 
The curragh seems to have alienated a lot of racing fans around the curragh. On the irish angle podcast they were saying as much. They seemed to have forgotten about the average racegoers who are the lifeblood of the sport.
 
As the saying goes, you don't get a second chance to make a good first impression.
A simple thing, The Irish Derby museum open in Curragh Court house Irish Derby week is closed on Derby Day for the past few years, the one day people are likely to want to view it.
 

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