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The 2025 Eclipse Stakes

What’s the basis for thinking they went slow today? If they had gone slow, there’s no way the winner would have won going away.

Time analysis has become completely overrated over the past decade. It’s the reason every horse gets beaten and every winner wins.
 
Fancied Ombudsman for York before today, still do. Quick turnaround from Ascot, wasn't sure about today, thought he was vulnerable. He's actually run well today, especially given not much went right. Completely different pace scenario and never saw the winner until after the line.
As for the winner, the non event in Epsom was a blessing. Didn't get the hard race in the wrong race which could have left a mark. Will be interesting to see if they go York next with him.

Just need Field Of Gold to take care of Goodwood and rock up at York aswell. Will he get the trip?
 
Race was faster than standard according to RP results. I still stand by the fact it was a very good performance. And I thought it was a great spectacle personally even if I did scare the beejesus out of the dog cheering Del Boy home. Hey I'm probably seriously biased as I love the horse but Jason was similarly impressed so that's good enough for me.
 
Ombudsman and Hotazhell ran too keenly for their own good.
Ground had firm in the description ( a rarity these days).
Just hoping they can all come from the race.
Delacroix back to a mile would be interesting ; Ryan thinks he has the toe to.
Dam sires Bernstein, Stravinsky and Apalachee a history of Ballydoyle 's good days, bad days and days when plans were changed.
Placing their six Group 1 winning 3 and 4 yo colts (8f to 12f) to maximise their stud valuations will be more fun for us all.
 
Slim said:
What’s the basis for thinking they went slow today? If they had gone slow, there’s no way the winner would have won going away.

Time analysis has become completely overrated over the past decade. It’s the reason every horse gets beaten and every winner wins.
Click to expand...
Moore himself said the race wasn't run as fast as he thought it would. Interestingly gosden thought the winner outstayed his horse. Funny how we all see the race differently.
 
I'm amazed anyone would be mentioning him going back to a mile. Only one place I'd be going with him and that would be the Arc.
 
Slim said:
What’s the basis for thinking they went slow today? If they had gone slow, there’s no way the winner would have won going away.

Time analysis has become completely overrated over the past decade. It’s the reason every horse gets beaten and every winner wins.
Click to expand...
Time anlysis has been around a long time,and generallly more advanced in other jurisdictions.
Pace has an effect on most races,and it's plain daft to pretend it doesn't
.From today's replay it's clear 2f out there's only 2lbetween the whole field.
The on-screen timer shows they only broke 12 secs for one furlong in the entire race - the penultimate one - which demonstrates it wasn't the stiff test it initially appears.
EC was fond of saying "pace makes the race",and it indubitably does,imo.
 
Was saying since Thursday, where was the pace going to come from.
Once Aiden didn't declare Expanded, he knew there would be little pace on, + that would be the best chance of getting the fav beat.
 
The problem with time analysis is that there is a data point to back up any angle you want.

Time 2m. 5.92 secs, which is 2.81 secs faster than the course average on today's going
 
Slim said:
The problem with time analysis is that there is a data point to back up any angle you want.

Time 2m. 5.92 secs, which is 2.81 secs faster than the course average on today's going
Click to expand...
Slim said:
The problem with time analysis is that there is a data point to back up any angle you want.

Time 2m. 5.92 secs, which is 2.81 secs faster than the course average on today's going
Click to expand...
But that reflects the going,rather than the pace.
Re data point check the sectionals when published;any decent analysis should reflect the view above.
 
reet hard said:
But that reflects the going,rather than the pace.
Re data point check the sectionals when published;any decent analysis should reflect the view above.
Click to expand...
A few years ago (when I was obsessed with the clock), I'd use Quicktime Pro7 to replay races and take sectionals (to the best of my ability using markers at different points of the CD). I recorded races at 50 FPS, so each frame was 0.02 of a second. It was a pain, but highlighted some interesting bits of data, especially when the official overall time of race was incorrect. Using Quicktime it was slick very slick to scroll back and forth through the replay and grab sections of any horse you were interested in. I waffle, but my point is (I am getting there, honest), I then started to make sectional standards, which was easier than it would seem, as it's a case of chopping the overall standard into fragments (using a bit of logic for bends and gradients). The same would be done for time allowances (WFA/Class), chopped up and implemented to each sectional standard (I did become stuck on starting speed for age/class allowances and what percentage to make for the first x distance from stall opening).

With all the data now out there for free, it would be a relatively easy job. From sectional standards, sectional speed figures could be created for each runner across the card. You'd still need to factor in drying/softening ground, but that needs to be done regardless.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, it would be a lot easier to make sense of the sectional times that are published, if converted into sectional speed figures. All the data is there to be used.
 
Moore getting heaps of praise. Think its the horse that deserves all the credit. Some performance to win the way he did. He did show a lot of speed in his first 2 runs this season so maybe not that surprising.
 
I'm with you there. If he'd got beaten, then they'd all be saying what a terrible ride. That the horse managed to get boxed in and also stumble three furlongs out and still pick up like that to win was for me considerable.
 
He may be the only Ballydoyle horse to give Fields Of Gold a race of it at Goodwood, especially on quick ground.
Artaius did it for MVOB , coming back to mile in Sussex for his first run over a mile since Beresford Stakes having been placed in a 12f French Derby pre Eclipse victory in my youthful days.
Unless of course TLIW does the business today , I could see Delacroix Sussex bound; he is 10/1 currently.
 
reet hard said:
Time anlysis has been around a long time,and generallly more advanced in other jurisdictions.
Pace has an effect on most races,and it's plain daft to pretend it doesn't
.From today's replay it's clear 2f out there's only 2lbetween the whole field.
The on-screen timer shows they only broke 12 secs for one furlong in the entire race - the penultimate one - which demonstrates it wasn't the stiff test it initially appears.
EC was fond of saying "pace makes the race",and it indubitably does,imo.
Click to expand...

I learned something about that onscreen timer a week or so ago. I assume we're talking about the pop-up per furlong time bottom left of screen on RTV? It's a split time between the leader and horse running in 2nd place. Say the leader did a particular furlong in 12.0 seconds and the next horse covered it in 12.6 seconds, the pop up will display 12.3 seconds.
I'm unsure if the MPH display does the same.
 
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