The Champion Hurdle 2010

Hamm said:
Yes, but he's already won that and a host of 3 mile hurdle Graded races - it's worth the risk, imho.
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Only if the owner is on an ego trip though or to keep the racing public happy. Common sense would suggest he should stick to what he's good at unless he needs to change because he's not good enough. The 3m race should be a penalty kick and round off a great season for him.
 
Hamm said:
What do you think would be egotistical about it?
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You said to "enhance the horses reputation". Big Bucks won't know his reputation has been enhanced, but the owner will. So the only reason the horse runs in it is to give the owner more satisfaction than winning the 3 miler? I've heard people say it's only Harry Findlay's ego that will put Denman in the National.
 
As a racing follower I would like to see Big Bucks go the 2m4f route to test him. Obviously the owners might have different priorties or wants - but from a spectactor point of view I would like to see him tested.
 
Cantoris said:
You said to "enhance the horses reputation". Big Bucks won't know his reputation has been enhanced, but the owner will. So the only reason the horse runs in it is to give the owner more satisfaction than winning the 3 miler? I've heard people say it's only Harry Findlay's ego that will put Denman in the National.
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If you're going to put that kind of spin on what I say, there's very little I can say in response...
 
Hamm said:
If you're going to put that kind of spin on what I say, there's very little I can say in response...
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Well lets forget about the horses reputation and all that and just call a spade a spade.....we all want to see it for our own selfish reasons, whether it is the right thing for the horse/connections or not. Personally, I'd love to see Denman in a National.....doesn't mean it's the right/sensible thing to do though.
 
Hamm said:
If you're going to put that kind of spin on what I say, there's very little I can say in response...
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Ur suggestion about 2 4 is irrelevant, won't happen. U don't start messing with distances just cause ur bored of winning so easy.

Anyway, the long term plan might still be to have a go at the GC not the CH
 
Cantoris said:
Well lets forget about the horses reputation and all that and just call a spade a spade.....we all want to see it for our own selfish reasons, whether it is the right thing for the horse/connections or not. Personally, I'd love to see Denman in a National.....doesn't mean it's the right/sensible thing to do though.
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I just think it would be great for his 'CV', great for the owner and great for everyone in racing.
 
Hamm said:
I just think it would be great for his 'CV', great for the owner and great for everyone in racing.
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Only if he wins though. Do you think Istabraq's reputation was damaged, even a little, by his couple of defeats over the wrong trip? I still remember the battle royales with Pridwell and Limestone Lad and it was certainly good for racing to have those finishes but also the racing public like undefeated champions or those on a roll.........like Sea The Stars and the American mare.
 
I see your point, and perhaps but maybe not damaged ... this would be one thing NH has over the flat for sure - a loss doesn't dent the 'CV' as much in this sphere in these kind of circumstances. Tricky one.
 
but also the racing public like undefeated champions or those on a roll.........like Sea The Stars
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and not retired to stud....

That might be true but the "racing public" probably also like to see horses take up challenges rather than running up sequences in a realtive comfort zone.

Having said that, im not for denman running the in National
 
I would worry for Denman in the National, purely because 4m 4 with 12 stone is a killer of an effort for any horse - regardless of how much stamina he has. Particularly one like Denman who likes to be prominent.
 
I really can't see what makes people think Big Buck's would win the Martell Hurdle; he'll be racing against far speedier horses than him, horses proven over 2m and who will have far too much toe for him over 2m4f. The horse hits flat spots in races over 3m, how will he manage against the likes of Zaynar over 2m4f? Still, it's not quite as daft a suggestion as the one I read from some wag who wants to see him run in the Champion next year - he'd be tailed.
 
Shadow Leader said:
I really can't see what makes people think Big Buck's would win the Martell* Hurdle; he'll be racing against far speedier horses than him, horses proven over 2m and who will have far too much toe for him over 2m4f. The horse hits flat spots in races over 3m, how will he manage against the likes of Zaynar over 2m4f? Still, it's not quite as daft a suggestion as the one I read from some wag who wants to see him run in the Champion next year - he'd be tailed.
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Probably the fact that many consider him, in pure form terms, decidedly superior to those he would meet, despite the fact that the step back in trip might well count against him. He's currently rated 9lb superior to Zaynar by Timeform, for example, so he wouldn't need to be that close to his best to be competitive. His "characteristic flat spot" has been distinctly lacking in two of his three races this season and is overplayed - it certainly has nothing to do with a lack of speed and is more likely nothing more than boredom.

* if we're going to use out of date sponsor's names, I propose we call it the Sun Templegate Hurdle!
 
Bobbyjo said:
I would worry for Denman in the National, purely because 4m 4 with 12 stone is a killer of an effort for any horse - regardless of how much stamina he has. Particularly one like Denman who likes to be prominent.
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He wouldn't carry twelve stone of course, and 11'10 for a horse like Denman isn't that much of a burden.
 
And the issue isn't so much what he's carrying but what he's conceding, of which would be far less than in a race like the Hennessy.
 
davidjohnson said:
And the issue isn't so much what he's carrying but what he's conceding, of which would be far less than in a race like the Hennessy.
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By next year, I'm sure Phil Smith will have managed to guarantee that the bottom weight will be around ten stone twelve, if only to prove that horses with eleven stone and over really can win the National ;)
 
Regardless of whether or not he's a better horse on ratings, I can't see him performing to that rating over the lesser trip myself. I really can't have him over two and a half miles, certainly not against far speedier horses.

I couldn't even tell you what the bloody race is called now to be quite honest - I lose track of what seems to be annual name changes! It's the Martell Hurdle to me, same as the Martell Cup is that and not the Betfair Bowl or whatever it's been renamed this year. Oh, and I will never call the Stayers' the poxy [Ladbroke] World Hurdle!!!!!
 
Shadow Leader said:
... I will never call the Stayers' the poxy [Ladbroke] World Hurdle!!!!!
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Why did they change it to that, anyway? The only runners apart from the Irish and UK horses tend to be French. I know they're important in NH terms, but since when were they "the World"?

It's a hurdle race for stayers so, for me too, it will always be the Stayers' Hurdle - although I am not so bad that I still call the Paddy Power GC The Mackeson! :lol:
 
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rorydelargy said:
By next year, I'm sure Phil Smith will have managed to guarantee that the bottom weight will be around ten stone twelve, if only to prove that horses with eleven stone and over really can win the National ;)
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Didn´t the winner and most of the placed hores last year carry 11.0 or more?

(At 20 mins for a euro on this machine I´m f*cked if I´m checking myself!!)
 
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