The Derby 2008

Harbinger

At the Start
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
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Since the trials have now begun, and the New Approach bombshell has been dropped, I thought it would be worth setting up a thread for the race so please direct all Derby-related posts here!

Here's the results of the trials we've had so far:

April 20: P.W.McGrath Memorial Ballysax Stakes (Group 3) @ Leopardstown
1 Moiqen (Prendergast)
2 Hebridean (O'Brien)
3 Unwritten Rule (Weld)

April 23: intercasino.co.uk Conditions Stakes @ Nottingham
1 Curtain Call (Cumani)
2 Drill Sergeant (Johnston)
3 Bold Choice (Jarvis)

April 26: Casino At bet365.com Classic Trial (Group 3) @ Sandown
1 Centennial (Gosden)
2 Whistledownwind (Chapple-Hyam)
3 Feared In Flight (Hills)

May 3: stanjamesuk.com 2000 Guineas Stakes (The 200th Running) (Group 1) @ Newmarket
1 Henrythenavigator (O'Brien)
2 New Approach (Bolger)
3 Stubbs Art (Elsworth)

May 3: stanjamesuk.com/casino Newmarket Stakes (Listed Race) @ Newmarket
1 Kandahar Run (Cecil)
2 Meeriss (Channon)
3 Better Hand (Channon)

May 4: PricewaterhouseCoopers Classic Trial @ Gowran Park
1 Hebridean (O'Brien)
2 Ebadiyan (Oxx)
3 Starluck (Prendergast)

May 8: Bank of America Chester Vase (Group 3) @ Chester
1 Doctor Fremantle (Stoute)
2 All The Aces (Jarvis)
3 Pampas Cat (Gosden)

May 9: Addleshaw Goddard Dee Stakes (Group 3) @ Chester
1 Tajaaweed (Stoute)
2 Unnefer (Cecil)
3 Achill Island (O'Brien)

May 10: totesport.com Derby Trial Stakes @ Lingfield
1 Alessandro Volta (O'Brien)
2 King Of Rome (O'Brien)
3 Campanologist (Suroor)

May 11: Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial @ Lingfield
1 Casual Conquest (Weld)
2 Washington Irving (O'Brien)
3 Moiqen (Prendergast)

May 15: totesport.com Dante Stakes @ York
1 Tartan Bearer (Stoute)
2 Frozen Fire (O'Brien)
3 Twice Over (Cecil)

I'll try and keep these updated so give me a prod if I miss anything...
 
Curtain Call and Twice have done very well in their first races of the season but I expect something better to appear soon.
 
Curtain Call won nicely enough and would have learnt a lot but to me he didn`t look a particulary well balanced horse and i`d have doubts about him acting around Epsom.

Ibn Khaldoun`s price is surely a joke, non-stayer.
 
I'd like to know what John Dunlop's plan for By Command is. Really eye-catching debut, picked up an injury when beaten favourite in a very hot Salisbury maiden on his second run and then a facile maiden winner at Windsor on his reappearance. Out of Rafha, he very much has a pedigree to suggest he could make an impact in pattern company and I'd like to see him go for the Dante.
 
I can't access RP from where I am - could anyone tell me what O'Brien's comments were on his respective Derby candidates, or specifically, Kingdom of Naples?

Thanks,
Andrew
 
The comments for each of them has been the same

"he has a lot of speed and could run in the july cup too"


:D


A lot of milers in that list. FFS...is Ravens going to get the distance!?

Havent looked through this in detail yet, but first job would be to rule out all those not bred to get near the trip.
 
I remember laying George Washington just after he won the Guineas at 4/1 so i`ll have the Derby market up just after the race in case Ibn Kaldoun wins and he goes single figures.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Hurley@Apr 28 2008, 06:14 AM
I can't access RP from where I am - could anyone tell me what O'Brien's comments were on his respective Derby candidates, or specifically, Kingdom of Naples?

Thanks,
Andrew
From The RP
INSIDE BALLYDOYLE
Published: 16/04/2008 (Sport) Aidan O'Brien reveals plans for some of Ballydoyle's leading hopes this season
Achill Island
3 c Sadler's Wells - Prawn Cocktail 22122-6
He showed good form last year when running second in the Royal Lodge and the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf and we think he will come on tons for his run in a Group 3 at Longchamp on Sunday. He will go for one of the Derby trials and could be heading to Chester for the Dee Stakes.
Alessandro Volta
3 c Montjeu - Ventura Highway 831-
He won his maiden at the third attempt, over nine furlongs, and shows plenty of class in his work. Good mover. Ready to start in the Ballysax Stakes at Leopardstown on Sunday.
Astronomer Royal
4 c Danzig - Sheepscot 613476-
He has plenty of pace. Won the French Guineas, which is over an easy mile and while it's not definite yet it's possible that he could go sprinting this year.
Bashkirov
3 c Galileo - Tina Heights 34-
He's a nice type of maiden who should win one and we think he is probably better than that. Out of a Shirley Heights mare, so he should appreciate a mile and a half.
Duke Of Marmalade
4 c Danehill - Love Me True 442423-
See page 3.
Frozen Fire
3 c Montjeu - Flamingo Sea 18-
We think he is a good bit better than he showed in the Racing Post Trophy. He will be a middle-distance colt and will go for a Derby trial.
Georgebernardshaw
3 c Danehill Dancer - Khamseh 7436-11
He has already shown that he has progressed well from two to three by winning his maiden and a seven-furlong Listed race at the Curragh. Both wins were on heavy but he should appreciate better ground.
Johnny Murtagh thinks he won't have a problem getting a mile, so he is in the mix for the 2,000 Guineas although there are other options.
Halfway To Heaven
3 f Pivotal - Cassandra Go 21-2
We were pleased with her run in the 1,000 Guineas Trial at Leopardstown where she was beaten only a head. We are looking at the French 1,000.
Haradasun
5 h Fusaichi Pegasus - Circles Of Gold 222330-
See page 3.
Henrythenavigator
3 c Kingmambo - Sequoyah 1123-
See page 3.
Honolulu
4 c Montjeu - Cerulean Sky 112338-
He won a couple of races last year and finished second in the Ebor and third in the St Leger and the Cumberland Lodge.
He is a horse for a mile and a half and further. We think he can improve.
Honoured Guest
4 c Danehill - Wind Silence 22/113-9
He started off last season well and won his first two starts before finishing third in the French Guineas. He had a bit of a hold-up and didn't run again until the Curragh on Sunday when he didn't handle the bad ground. He's a smart colt and has plenty of pace - it could be that he will go for races from a mile down.
Jupiter Pluvius
3 c Johannesburg - Saratoga Honey 11- See page 3.
King Of Rome
3 c Montjeu - Amizette 710-
He improved from his debut to win his maiden in good style.
He didn't run well in the Racing Post Trophy on his final start but we think he is a lot better than he ran that day.
A big colt with plenty of ability and will be suited by middle distances. The plan is to start him off in the Ballysax Stakes.
We hope he is fit enough to do himself justice but he will come on for the run.
Kitty Matcham
3 f Rock Of Gibraltar - Imagine 44911-
She improved a lot towards the end of last season and won the Rockfel on her final start. She's smart and will go straight to Newmarket for the 1,000 Guineas. She should do well and get further than a mile.
Listen
3 f Sadler's Wells - Brigid 1221-
The setback that ruled her out of the 1,000 Guineas was only minor, but because of her pedigree we will be taking no risks. The important thing is that she can retire safely to the paddocks. We're looking to have her back in action in the second half of the season.
Lucifer Sam
3 c Storm Cat -Rafina 21278-5
We were happy with his run at Longchamp but he will improve on better ground. The plan is to send him back for the French Guineas. When Landseer (2002) and Astronomer Royal (2007) won the French Guineas for us they had both run in the same trial and came on nicely for it.
Macarthur
4 c Montjeu - Out West 1/3336-7
Failed to win last year but ran third in the Great Voltigeur and was beaten only two and a half lengths in the St Leger. At the Curragh on Sunday he couldn't handle the ground.
Mahler
4 c Galileo - Rainbow Goddess 101523-
He is a stayer and while he won a Group 3 and was a good second in the St Leger at Doncaster, he wasn't quite good enough to win the Melbourne Cup off a low weight. He ran well to finish third at Flemington and we'll just have to see whether he can improve on last year's form. We'll probably start him off at a lowish level. He is by Galileo and they can progress.
He could go back to Melbourne, but he is almost certainly going to have more weight this year.
Mount Nelson
4 c Rock Of Gibraltar - Independence 211/0-
We were only able to get one race into him last season and had to rush him a bit because of a series of little problems.
He won a Group 1 at two and is a pacey colt who could be an exciting prospect this year, probably at around a mile.
One Great Cat
3 c Storm Cat - Blissful 3133-7
He started off at Longchamp on Sunday and while he handled the track, he found the ground very demanding and got tired. He will probably go back for the French Guineas and should improve.
Peeping Fawn
4 f Danehill - Maryinsky 321111-
See page 3.
Plan
3 c Storm Cat - Spain 51-
He's a very nice colt who improved nicely to win a Leopardstown maiden easily on quick ground. We're preparing for Newmarket and the Guineas. The next weeks will tell us a lot and we'll have to wait and see how he goes when we step up his work.
Poet
3 c Pivotal - Hyabella 43-1
A good-moving, long-striding colt who won his maiden on testing ground at the Curragh last month. The form has been boosted since and he came out of the race well. He goes for the Feilden Stakes at Newmarket today and should appreciate better ground. He's in the Derby but whether he will get a mile and a half, we can't be sure.
Psalm
3 f Sadler's Wells - Litani River 2-7
She had been working very well before she went to Leopardstown for the 1,000 Guineas Trial. Her saddle slipped forward very early in the race, so her run is best ignored. She will probably go for the French 1,000 Guineas.
Queen Of The Night
3 f Sadler's Wells - Gift Of The Night -3
Closely related to Falbrav and is a nice big filly with loads of class. She is still raw and we were very pleased with her debut at the Curragh on Sunday when she made up a lot of ground to finish third.
She is one to look forward to and could be an Oaks filly.
Red Rock Canyon
4 c Rock Of Gibraltar - Imagine 220223-
When you look at some of his form it is amazing to think that he is still a maiden after 11 starts. He has run well in Group races and finished third in the Irish Champion Stakes.
He can be a bit lazy, but we use him sometimes as a lead horse at home. Hopefully, he will be able to win this year.
He could go for the Prix Ganay with Duke Of Marmalade.
Sail
3 f Sadler's Wells - Pieds De Plume 0-2
She's a nice type who ran on well when second over ten furlongs at Leopardstown early this month. She should come forward dramatically for the run.
Savethisdanceforme
3 f Danehill Dancer - Bex 48141-2
She went on from winning a maiden at Dundalk to run fourth in the Prix Marcel Boussac and finished off with a nine-length win in a Listed race at the Curragh. We were pleased with her run in a Group 3 at the Curragh last month when she was caught close home on heavy ground.
She came out of the race well and goes for the 1,000 Guineas at Newmarket.
Septimus
5 h Sadler's Wells - Caladira 10/1211-
See page 3.
Soldier Of Fortune
4 c Galileo - Affianced 115115-
He has done well and we're looking forward to another good season with him. I'm not sure where exactly he will start off, but it could be in the Tattersalls Gold Cup at the Curragh on Irish Guineas weekend. After that we'll be looking at some of the top mile-and-a-half races for him.
Tale Of Two Cities
3 c Sadler's Wells - Kasora 36-
He's a full-brother to High Chaparral and was a bit disappointing. We're hoping for better from him this season and he starts off in a maiden at Newmarket today. He's ready for a run but like most of ours, he should come on for the race.
The Bogberry
3 c Hawk Wing - Lahinch 619-
He won his maiden before going to the Chesham Stakes.
We were expecting a good run from him but he ran badly and came home lame behind. He needed a good break after that and was back working very well late on but we just ran out of time last season and he didn't have another run. He's been working well on the bridle and we'll be starting him off in the Craven Stakes tomorrow.
US Ranger
4 c Danzig - My Annette 17214-3
He didn't really handle the ground when he ran third in the Gladness Stakes on Sunday. Jessica Harrington's horse Jumbajukiba was very fit and loved the ground and he killed us all off. I think our horse will improve a lot in terms of fitness and he should do well on better ground.
Vivaldi
3 c Montjeu - Parvenue 91-
He improved nicely from his first run to win at Gowran Park and is a smart colt who will appreciate middle distances.
We're thinking of starting him off in the Chester Vase.
Wassily Kandinsky
3 c Montjeu - Lady Storm 4224-
He's a decent type of maiden who should appreciate middle distances. He could start off in the Chester Vase, along with Vivaldi.
You'resothrilling
3 f Storm Cat - Mariah's Storm 21218-
She showed herself to be a good filly last year, but she had a little setback over the winter which stopped us preparing her for the 1,000 Guineas.
We're hoping to have her back in mid-summer when she will be going for good races at around a mile.
Washington Irving
3 c Montjeu - Shouk 4-2
We think he is a smart colt. He showed promise on his only start last year, and we were happy with his run at Leopardstown a week last Sunday when he was beaten a short head and just seemed to get a bit tired near the finish.
He should improve for the run and the plan is to send him back to Leopardstown for the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial next month when we hope to learn more about him.
William Hogarth
3 c High Chaparral - Mountain Holly 64-
He had a couple of runs last year and is a promising colt who should do better this season. He's been working nicely without being asked to do anything serious and will probably start off in a maiden at Leopardstown on Sunday.
Yeats
7 h Sadler's Wells - Lyndonville 7/11113-
See page 3.
Zulu Chief
3 c Fusaichi Pegasus - La Lorgnette We like him. He's a fine big colt and a good mover. He starts off in the Wood Ditton at Newmarket tomorrow and we'll see how he goes. Plenty fit enough to start, it will be a question of whether he knows enough to be able to win first time out. He is an interesting prospect.
'Queen Of The Night has loads of class and is one to look forward to.
She could turn out to be an Oaks filly'
 
Henry in at 12s. Ibn Khaldun out to 33s and Kandahar Run clipped into 25s after his Listed win at Newmarket.
 
Perhaps, but that was very soft going.

I see Kandahar Run cut for the Derby today, little chance he will get the trip or be good enough in my opinion.
 
Originally posted by BackHander@May 3 2008, 05:19 PM
Forgive his RP run, and the Guineas boosts Curtain Call's claims?
On the face of it yes, but the form from the Futurity should be treated with a pinch of salt I think. Henrythenavigator got tired in the ground having chased a very quick pace (O'Brien doesn't seem to think the 2yo's were right either at the time.) Curtain Call just ran on through beaten horses essentially and that form flatters him IMO.

I would be more inclined to judge him on the Beresford form.
 
Aidan O'Brien:

"I may have been a bit too cut and dried (on Sunday) abouyt Henrythenavigator being a miler. The Derby is in our thoughts now.

"Everything will be taken into consideration, but as far as Coolmore is concerned, the Derby is the biggest race and it is definitely not ruled out."

Note that last bit :P
 
I could see them running him if everything else flopped on them but I would imagine after the Derby trials they will be happy with what they have.

I do like the line though- "Before Saturday the staff in the yard had different views about what Henry wanted - from a mile and a quarter on dirt, to him being a five- or six-furlong horse. :D
 
Yes , I think it gives an indication of how good he is that they all think he is capable of vastly different jobs. I think many have called the form of the Guineas into question possibly because of the third being a 100/1 shot, however my own feeling is that it was a very good race and the winner will get at least 1m2f. Whether they'll risk him finding out is unlikely as his runners seem to be on their game now and he shoudn't have a problem providing at least two with a decent chance of winning it.
 
Derrinstown Derby Trial 5 day entries...looks a pretty good renewal.

Angels Story (JSBolger)
Casual Conquest (DKWeld)
Chevie (THogan)
Dirar (MHalford)
Frozen Fire (GER) (APO'Brien)
Hebridean (APO'Brien)
Hindu Kush (APO'Brien)
Katiyra (JMOxx)
Matters At Hand (DKWeld)
Moiqen (KPrendergast)
Washington Irving (APO'Brien)
Winchester (USA) (DKWeld)
 
Yes , I think it gives an indication of how good he is that they all think he is capable of vastly different jobs

Come off it.... How many horses are as effective at 5f as 16f? :rolleyes:

Weve had plenty of this in the past from Coolmore and i think most take it all with a big pinch of salt
 
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