The Derby

Jan Vermeer has now lost shoes in each of his last two outings - sounds like he does not have the toughest of feet so perhaps the ground probably was too fast.
 
I didn't really see the build up to the Derby but my brother was thinking of backing Midas Touch and I thought it strange that Heffernan was riding At First Sight. Maybe they wanted their second jock on the pacemaker but surprised they needed a pacemaker in at all. It's not as if Jan Vameer was guaranteed to appreciate a strong pace. I think all the O'Brien horses were running on their merits and they might have been hoping to nick it from the front on At First Sight in a small field where they prob reckoned nothing would go on. midas Touch looked one-paced today, as he did when he won the Derrinstown. A Queens Vase horse.
 
I think Jaan Vermer didnt run his race, I hope it does not pay for the future, he needs softer ground too.


about the winner
I think he is the best Derby winner I have seen, I will go a provisional 132p for this, the time really fast and the form looks solid, I would go to Curragh and then Arc should be target.
 
Interesting you say that Euronymous. Provision Timeform rating for the winner for today's performance is 132. The same that Authorized ran to and 1 lb higher than Motivator.
 
I have him on a bare 125 on the same scale as ORs, so I'm sure the RP and Timeform will break the 130 mark.
 
davidjohnson said:
Interesting you say that Euronymous. Provision Timeform rating for the winner for today's performance is 132. The same that Authorized ran to and 1 lb higher than Motivator.
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Sounds about right, although I think Motivator was over-rated.
 
Galileo said:
Jan Vermeer has now lost shoes in each of his last two outings - sounds like he does not have the toughest of feet so perhaps the ground probably was too fast.
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That goes along with the rumours from yesterday. He's got very dodgy feet.
 
I've given him a Beyer figure of 121 which equates to a Timeform figure of 133ish. Absolute monster performance.
 
It'll be interesting to see what the Americans can come up with. Arguably the best of their classic generation that is still in training goes in the Belmont Stakes tonight (11:32 on ATR). Ice Box was second in the Kentucky Derby despite getting stopped in his tracks. Then again, they do not seem up to all that much as a group of horses.
 
How fast does the going allowance you lads came up with suggest the ground rode?

Didn't seem as though they went a suicidal pace up front (the fact that At First Sight clung on for arguably second proves as much in itself).

I remember being told that the pace over the first 4 furlongs of the Derby largely dictate whether any particular renewal will be a relative test of speed or stamina. Would be really interesting to be able to see that sectional. Almost embarrassing that we don't have access to it when you consider Tom Durkin will be reading the sectionals off in-race this evening.
 
"[Jan Vermeer] probably didn't handle the track," said jockey Johnny Murtagh. "As we turned the corner, I was upsidesRyan, then Ryan quickened up and we ended up going up and down on the spot." He added: "My horse never gave me a good feel and I was not confident at any stage. When Ryan kicked I tried to go with him but couldn't."
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I tend to think we did not see the best of JV today - and my fears prior to the race that it was all a bit of a rush came to be true. I don't think stamina was an issue....he would want to make a fair degree of progress though if he is to match Workforce though! We thought once SNA was deemed to fail that there wouldn't be a colt to set things alight - we were wrong for sure!

For the record, I think JV and Midas Touch will prove to be better than the stablemate that finished in front of him today...unlike say how Dylan Thomas who went on to prove himself to be best of his bunch.

I thought Rewilding did very well to finish where he did as he looked in big trouble really early on but managed to stay on. My worry for him was he looked hard fit for this today and carried very little condition. Think connections should give him a break and come back in the Autumn with him as he could be very good.

Coordinated Cut and Al Zir did well enough, imagine Al Zir will be stepping back in trip next time though.
 
Galileo said:
I tend to think we did not see the best of JV today - and my fears prior to the race that it was all a bit of a rush came to be true. I don't think stamina was an issue....he would want to make a fair degree of progress though if he is to match Workforce though! We thought once SNA was deemed to fail that there wouldn't be a colt to set things alight - we were wrong for sure!

For the record, I think JV and Midas Touch will prove to be better than the stablemate that finished in front of him today...unlike say how Dylan Thomas who went on to prove himself to be best of his bunch.

I thought Rewilding did very well to finish where he did as he looked in big trouble really early on but managed to stay on. My worry for him was he looked hard fit for this today and carried very little condition. Think connections should give him a break and come back in the Autumn with him as he could be very good.

Coordinated Cut and Al Zir did well enough, imagine Al Zir will be stepping back in trip next time though.
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got to be honest Gal..just on the day..i couldn't take much out of the race bar the winner..others never moved when went after the leader..he is different gravy to his peers
 
Jan Vermeer looked as if he was a shade free throughout to me. Even coming down the hill I thought he was looking to do a bit more than Murtagh wanted. Couldn't match the winner's sustained acceleration at all though. Gets more impressive the more you see it as well.

Midas Touch is just lacking a turn of foot. Do you reckon Jan Vermeer will show up at the Curragh, Gal?
 
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