The Dewhurst

davidjohnson said:
Are we not rewriting history with Twice Over? Having ran in the Craven they swerved the Guineas to go to the Dante. Why would they have run in the Dante if they weren't aiming at the Derby? Didn't he come back sick after York?
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Not quite rewriting history. My clear recollection is that there was a general assumption, based on his Zetland win, that Twice Over would go for the Derby but Cecil said many times that he wasn't convinced he'd stay. The horse may have been sick after York - I can't remember - but I'm pretty sure Cecil had already said after his defeat in the Dante that he wouldn't go to Epsom and cited lack of stamina as the reason.

I'm only making the point that Cecil will do what he thinks is right for Frankel and he looks highly likely to ignore the inevitable calls for the horse to run in the Derby.
 
It will depend alot sure on what else Abdullah has for the race. If Frankel is impressive in the Guineas, I think they will find it hard to leave a son of Galileo in his box on the day.
 
Galileo said:
Roderic looked a "Rip Van Winkle" Galileo - not overly big but uses himself very well.
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Better put than I did. Likeable horse, and very well-made. He would almost remind you of Horatio Nelson in one way.

I thought Saamidd was comfortably the pick of the paddock, but disappointed he ran so poorly - what exactly did he do beforehand? I realise he ran free but I've read in places he lost his chance before the start.
 
Melendez said:
I wouldn't think it had any affect on his chance, but maybe, in retrospect, it was a warning that all was not well.
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I found in strange that in the build up to the race we were told he was very lazy at home - I thought he was "pegasus" on the gallops?
 
Surprised that there isn't more talk about Roderic O'C.

Physically, does he look the type to train on? Because, given their respective campaigns and how long it is since Rod has run, I would fancy him at a price to turn over the winner.

These hype machines more often than not disappoint. And I think he is possibly the sceond best miler in waiting among the 2yo brigade.
 
Not sure about turning over the winner Bar but he ran a good race at what looked a decent enough pace.

Interesting that firms pushed him out for the Guineas and cut him for the Derby yesterday so looks like connections are looking at a 10-12f campaign with Rod next year.
 
I would not be surprised to see Zoffany bounce back next year as their top three year old miler, unless they still have something else to emerge.

Sounds like Roderic could run again in France or America.
 
Talking about the Guineas Saturday, I was saying that horses are often dismissed on the basis of a run(or even 2) where they have valid reasons for running below form, with the best recent example being Henrythenavigator - Zoffany is a similar case.
 
I think the best form Zoffany showed was over 6 furlongs - but that was really the only opportunity he got to show what he could do. I am certain he is a 7 furlong plus horse who's class got him the win over 6 furlongs. In the Phoenix Stakes he was really only getting going in the last half furlong.

Weither he is up to beating a colt like Frankel though is obviously questionable.
 
I should have said also - despite the fact i think Zoffany could be a very good miler, I think at this stage Roderic is a better prospect.
 
Cecil has said that Frankel wasn't at his best on Saturday and to me he looked slightly dull in his coat (anybody there who can confirm this?) - in which case his win was even more convincing. That and the fact the ground was very much against him - he won despite it. For me, he is every bit the horse I thought he was when I first set eyes on him and it will take a Sea the Stars to beat him!

Saamid's attitude was a bit worrying - he really didn't want to go in the stalls and the handlers did an excellent job (I'd say mentally he was probably over the top for the year). Once out, he was way too free - he's a bonny horse (not in the same league as Frankel imo and lacks the scope in comparison) - I hope he does well over the winter and doesn't bomb like so many in the yard.

Dream Ahead was disappointing because he should have handled the ground. Instead he looked very choppy in his action and paddled badly when he came under pressure. I wonder if he's not that sound and needs the softer ground because of this. Hes a big, shouldery horse and as Francome remarked had run up pretty light. I have a lot of respect for David Simcock and the horse is in good hands.
 
I do not get this idea that the ground was very much against Frankel? Was it that much worse than at Ascot? He actually hits the ground pretty hard.

He got a bump and pulled hard - he pulled hard in his previous race without any interference. It is just him and does not affect him - indeed it probably makes him what he is. Never did New Approach any harm.
 
I agree, and whilst Frankel was impressive, I think there are certain points which were stated repeatedly in the media post-race that I don't think are true - for example, he certainly didn't look like a horse who will be even better as a 3 year old, and I would say if you had to choose between he and Saamidd, I'd go for the Godolphin horse as the better looker and perhaps better physically (despite being inferior on actual racecourse performances). Nor do I think his keenness means he is value for a higher rating - this seems to be how he is, and not something which makes one think there is more in the locker. Dream Ahead looked like he had the backside of a sprinter, and that's where I think his future may lie.
 
Galileo said:
He got a bump and pulled hard - he pulled hard in his previous race without any interference. It is just him and does not affect him - indeed it probably makes him what he is. Never did New Approach any harm.
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Any horse that pulls hard is expanding energy unnecessarily. You say it never did New Approach any harm, perhaps he was a 140 horse trapped in a headstrong 130 horse's body.
 
davidjohnson said:
Any horse that pulls hard is expanding energy unnecessarily. You say it never did New Approach any harm, perhaps he was a 140 horse trapped in a headstrong 130 horse's body.
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That is true - but if he can produce a 130 performance in the Guineas pulling hard, then if I were his backer I would not be too worried.

What harmed New Approach more was their attempt to settle him out the back, or go against his natural style e.g in the Juddmonte International.

What I would say is, and I am repeating what I said after Ascot (and was disagreed with at the time) - there is no need for him to win by 10 lengths every time he runs as regardless of how easy it looks he is clearly a horse that is pretty hard on himself and winning by large distances every time eventually takes its toll on a horse.
 
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