The election 2015

clivex said:
Try googling watson and brittain before commenting. its not difficult. And perhaps you would understand why leons family might well want to see watson crippled for life. i would

Also, you should notice that cameron barely said a word about corbyn before yesterday. he can hang himself

personal comments? Aside from the awful thought of him with flabbot, its been about his laughable and somewhat sinister worldview and nothing else

But who was it complaining that the bbc wouldnt bang on about a supposed nothing story about cameron from 30 years ago ?

I despise corbyn and all he stands for but as i said before, good governance needs effective opposition. That is what has been lost. There is no opposition now that labour is not even trying to win an election

Put it bluntly. Camerons speech cleverly reached way past the delegates. Right out to the voters. Corbyns awful speech did not have one line that reached beyond a Guardian reader.
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i don't need to google anything..my point was that someone being overweight isn't really connected with IQ..which is something you seem to believe. You think the non dom issue and pigshead story is a non story?..and yet the national anthem was a big story...the beeb did

The BBC over the last month have bullied Corbyn in the same way the rubbishy rags you read have...they should know better..i wasn't complaining they should dwell on Cameron ,..my point was..they should be consistent...and seeing as how over the last month..they have been biased..they should give Cameron the same treatment

I think you are shitting yersen that Corbyn could get power...surely even you can work out he has no chance..why the obsession with him? I don't really buy the oppo stuff..you want the tories in power..you've got em now for 20 years..just enjoy..its a dream come true for you
 
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this is all a bit stupid

Corbyn is a new leader. Cameron isnt

I want examples of bbc bullying of Corbyn.the panorama documentary highlighting his links to extreme right wing hate preachers and nutter holocaust deniers? You think this shouldnt be reported? How is that bullying?

I will clearly tell you one thing though...

If cameron shared platforms or contributed financiallywith the the equally racist KKK and combat 18 or the BNP he would emphatically not be tory leader now. No chance.
 
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EC1 said:
The point i was making though..is if it had been Corbyn..it would have run for at least a month..it took them a week to get over the national anthem non story. Dave gets a pretty easy ride from the media.
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As I recall the Beeb did their duty and reported Abbotgate but with the same cursory disinterest as they did Piggate; and do remember that the former is true but the latter may be spurious

I personally agree that the anthem business was overblown but was newsworthy nevertheless as it provided the electorate with an insight into the political beliefs of a man whose wish is to govern said proletariat

I do however agree that Corbyn is seen as fair, easy game for the media; but isn't that because we haven't really seen anything like him - politically - for decades: the bones of fossilized dinosaurs are easy to dissect, breaths of fresh air on an ever-crowding shiny new bandwagon aren't. Who knows? We proles have five years or the length of Corbyn's tenure to choose which. Bring it on with an open mind
 
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Stale air imo

It has staggered me how he is nothing more than an unthinking 80s photocopied trot. Very simplistic too.

Look at his answer to the immigration issue last week?. it was either flippant or he really had taken absolutely no time at at all to think through a constrictive answer. there is a very good case to be made fpor putting immigration in context and stress some benefits, but all he did was state that the problem is not laying on enough public services

A true head in hands moment

hes useless
 
i haven't seen the same attention being given to other parties new leaders though Clive..and lets not forget..more than two parties were asked to those debates as though "equal". So if they are given equal treatment before elections..then why not afterwards?

You say you want a strong opposition..and before the last election..many people when asked..well labour + tory look alike..no difference. Well now there is a large difference between Labour and Tory..isn't that actually a stronger oppo than when miliband was in charge?

My view about Corbyn is..he looks a weak leader...people won't..no matter what ANY of his views on any issue is..vote for him if they feel the nation would not be defended either by a fighting force of having Trident. People keep saying..we don't need trident..it will never be used..when in fact there has never been a time in my lifetime where we need all the defence we can get. Just on that one aspect..he has lost the next election now...nothing else matters if you are not living in a secure country. He is a wishy washy..lets have a leaflet campaign to try and make the world all nice and cuddly..type of chap. All well and good if you live in a commune with him...not so good if you give someone like him the ultimate position in a country.

If we lived in 1982 now..and we had a choice between Michael Foot and Corbyn as leader..Foot would have the better chance of being elected...which sort of puts Corbyn's chance into perspective.

I think..opposition to government wise..he is be a good choice..because his views completely are at odds with the tories..so you have your good oppo there..buts that all he is. I'm not seeing how you think the government doesn't have a good opposition..you have the best oppo you could have...a completely opposite view..whereas before such as miliband looked to the electorate too much like the tories

This is the problem for labour..if you have a blairite crop..people say..oh they all look the same..if you move to someone like Corbyn..you get..oh yes he's different..but he isn't PM material.

I can't see the day when Labour will see power..because the road they have taken now won't be an easy one to get off. They will have 4 years as a party looking like they are Corbynites to the electorate...well they all look like that now with the size of the mandate he got. When it goes to tits..they will then have to change to a more middle ground..basically saying it was wrong. Electorate will just think they change with the moon and look to the tories..who basically are the same animal each time in comparison to labours changing ways.
 
clivex said:
Stale air imo

It has staggered me how he is nothing more than an unthinking 80s photocopied trot. Very simplistic too.

Look at his answer to the immigration issue last week?. it was either flippant or he really had taken absolutely no time at at all to think through a constrictive answer. there is a very good case to be made fpor putting immigration in context and stress some benefits, but all he did was state that the problem is not laying on enough public services

A true head in hands moment

hes useless
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The general rhetoric looks initially appealing to a section of society..it all looks nice..until he gets put under any scrutiny..he stutters and looks like he cannot back anything up..he appears not to think on his feet. I find it all a bit cringy seeing someone who can't defend his ideas.

Anyone can say anything to get elected..the problem is..he has 4 years now to actually explain in clear terms how he will go about things...if he doesn't or can't..then the initial rhetoric will be wearing very thin in 4 years time if its just as wishy washy by then.
 
EC1 said:
The general rhetoric looks initially appealing to a section of society..it all looks nice..until he gets put under any scrutiny..he stutters and looks like he cannot back anything up..he appears not to think on his feet. I find it all a bit cringy seeing someone who can't defend his ideas.

Anyone can say anything to get elected..the problem is..he has 4 years now to actually explain in clear terms how he will go about things...if he doesn't or can't..then the initial rhetoric will be wearing very thin in 4 years time if its just as wishy washy by then.
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That's a good observation. I have noticed that too and hes quite easily rattled. Without being too personal, hes not the sharpest
 
clivex said:
That's a good observation. I have noticed that too and hes quite easily rattled. Without being too personal, hes not the sharpest
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i've been very disappointed with how he comes across..Tony Benn he ain't.

Labour let themselves down with the leader election..all the supposed heavy weights didn't have the backbone to stand..they let middle ground lessers take on the left candidate. Its no use such as Hunt ...Chukka and co being all put out now..and invisible now i notice.

You cannot expect Labour to appeal to voters when the main people stand back like that....let the party move to one position..then when Corbyn goes..jump back in..change direction again..and say..right we will get back on track now...people will get turned off.

The idea that those people made a smart move is laughable to me...let someone else take the opposition job whilst they sit and wait..yes all well and good if the boat is sailing close to what they want..like if one of the other 3 had got the job..but with Corbyn getting it it has messed the clever move up..the next leader if one of the daft sods who didn't stand this time gets it.. it will inherit a party in turmoil yet again.

Hunt & co took a gamble by sitting back...and they have lost that gamble in a massive way..as of yet i've not seen such as Andrew Neil have the chance to ask any of them how they feel now that the ploy has gone so badly wrong..they seem to not want to be on camera

i remember watching the aftermath of labour losing the election..they had Liz and Chukka on saying how it was all going to be..ooh we have to tread carefully..find out where we went wrong..all non commital and nicey nicey..careful to not say anything out of line,,then bang..in comes Corbyn..and all that approach goes out the window.

its turned into a massive nightmare for Labour..and they only have themselves to blame. the big guns should have been in that leader election..a massive mistake
 
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She was awful today on Today too. Dreadful

i suppose she had the front to appear but it's significant that they couldn't find anyone at all from the treasury or outside tiny clique of corbyn supporters to appear on the programme

i have never seen a major party in such a total mess
 
you should be pleased Clive..surely you want the tories in for 20 years don't you?

i've more chance of getting into number 10 than Corbyn has..i'm amazed you keep needing to hammer the nails into the coffin..you seem more concerned than labour mps..puzzling

Labour is now like watching someone think ..what is the worse case scenario a party can get into after losing an election..oh yes i know
 
as I've said before, its not good to have weak opposition. i also have a lot of sympathy for the smarter and saner labour supporters who really must not know where to turn now. the government can be exposed on a few fronts and you have to wonder what someone with the capability of david milliband could have made of it all

i am also pleased to se the far left exposed for what it is. A bunch of clueless thickos and bigots who could organise and egg throwing contest
 
clivex said:
as I've said before, its not good to have weak opposition. i also have a lot of sympathy for the smarter and saner labour supporters who really must not know where to turn now. the government can be exposed on a few fronts and you have to wonder what someone with the capability of david milliband could have made of it all

i am also pleased to se the far left exposed for what it is. A bunch of clueless thickos and bigots who could organise and egg throwing contest
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but they had weak oppo when labour were viewed as the same thing as them ..so surely they now have a proper oppo..in that..this labour party now are at total odds with them

the fact that the tories are almost daily pinching last labour ideas tells you how close both were before

we have the perfect scenario for good oppo on paper..depends what you mean by a good oppo..is good oppo where you have two parties that are just about the same as each other?..not seeing how that is going to challenge the government much if two parties are basically spouting same sh1te..whereas we are going to see challenges to policy now

not really sure what your gripe is..perfect scenario..tories represent greedy..labour now represent the needy..as it has been in the distant past

you seem so worried about labour that you have to keep attacking them..what for?..no one takes them seriously bar you from what i can see...or are all tories secretly scared?..are your other tory buddies actually frit of Labour now??..seriously?
 
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I think its offensive that the attitude that anyone who is a tory is "greedy". There are plenty of tories who contribute far more charitably and voluntarily than you or me. Frankly the most money obsessed people i know have generally been so called socialists. Admittedly they are failures and losers obsessed with something they havent got in the way a sex pervert never gets a shag

I attack labour because its great to kick a cripple when they are down, especially if they are ira, jew hating, command economy worshiping pricks

An opposition that appeals to a tiny slither of the electorate and makes no effort whatsoever to connect with the rest, is NOT an opposition. You think quality of argument is down to how extreme the views are? Thats bonkers

You just have to accept that socialism has failed and is finished. In every state its been forced upon its people there has been complete failure as we are now seeing in the worlds worst run economy.

to give an example of the pure stupidity and horrendously dated thinking of labour, mcdonnell atrributed his u turn on the deficit to the failure of a privately owned steel plant in redcar.

Is that what they base major policy on???
 
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clivex said:
I think its offensive that the attitude that anyone who is a tory is "greedy". There are plenty of tories who contribute far more charitably and voluntarily than you or me. Frankly the most money obsessed people i know have generally been so called socialists. Admittedly they are failures and losers obsessed with something they havent got in the way a sex pervert never gets a shag

I attack labour because its great to kick a cripple when they are down, especially if they are ira, jew hating, command economy worshiping pricks

An opposition that appeals to a tiny slither of the electorate and makes no effort whatsoever to connect with the rest, is NOT an opposition. You think quality of argument is down to how extreme the views are? Thats bonkers

You just have to accept that socialism has failed and is finished. In every state its been forced upon its people there has been complete failure as we are now seeing in the worlds worst run economy.

to give an example of the pure stupidity and horrendously dated thinking of labour, mcdonnell atrributed his u turn on the deficit to the failure of a privately owned steel plant in redcar.

Is that what they base major policy on???
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i haven't said anyone who is tory is greedy..but it did really amuse me that someone who has spouted what you have on here..can actually get offended..even funnier thats it has to be associated with a love of money illness before something offends you:)

i said what the tories represent is greed..anyone who thinks they represent anything else must live in a different country. They certainly aren't the party of the needy are they Clive? Or are you going to try and convince me how they care for people with lower incomes than they..or people who live in poor areas.

i think you have some sort of issue tbh..its like each time you post its got to have some bile about labour in it..i wonder if there is a name for it..its like a sort of tourettes.. but instead of swearing its negative labour speak you shout out. I can just see you in the supermarket suddenly coming out with "racist Corbyn" whilst doing yer grocery shopping and folk just looking at you..then an old lass turns round and says..oooh take no notice... he got labourettes..its terrible int it..bless.
 
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Strange post EC

its a big issue at the moment and probably the most significant for the two parties in my memory. Labour is heading for oblivion and there should be no comment on it?

I think those who want the party to win should be the angry ones. And unlike the left who shout "tory scum" even at their own party members, i back myself to justify my points
 
clivex said:
Strange post EC

its a big issue at the moment and probably the most significant for the two parties in my memory. Labour is heading for oblivion and there should be no comment on it?

I think those who want the party to win should be the angry ones. And unlike the left who shout "tory scum" even at their own party members, i back myself to justify my points
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i

its everyday though Clive..and its usually same comments..Corbyn racist..Corbyn terrorist lover..just repeated endlessly day after day

i know its the tory way to keep repeating mantras//but you take it to extreme.

i get your view on him..but lets be honest..he is an easy target for the right wing media..its not really smart or clever to keep kicking a man down.

its just a bit boring..i'm sure anyone reading this thread..if anyone does..really does get the message about how you feel about about Labour

you talk like the tories are paragons of virtue..like there are no stories about them in the media

My take on the constant mantra is that you fear them getting power..but if they are totally beaten down now..i'd be more worried about who the real threat is to the tories getting power next time..according to you and the press..it can't be labour..they are a joke are they not?..i think you fear them..yes i've said that numerous times..but you never respond.
 
Wrong

its what I feel about a sect within labour. No more than that. I have had a lot of respect for any number of labour mps and ministers
 
My views would be far more in line with a Jenkins blair or even brown than some virtual ukip twit
 
clivex said:
Wrong

its what I feel about a sect within labour. No more than that. I have had a lot of respect for any number of labour mps and ministers
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the sect though now represents the majority labour view

personally i can't see labour chugging along in the stupour it is now in..someone has to call time on whats occuring within at some point.

i watched PM questions today..its like something out of a film about what could happen if..well if has happened.

i'd have to say either they get rid of him or the labour party splits in a large way with the non majority corbyners running for the hills..fast

time will tell

they keep saying..ooh every decision will be discussed at length..then mcdonnel just drops u turn on them..no discussion
 
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Have to disagree about that ec. Not by a very long way the majority view of labour voters as a number of fairly damning polls have shown. As with the tories, you will find that activists are a lot more extreme and motivated than the average voter.

I saw a bit of pmq too and it's a breeze for cameron
 
clivex said:
Have to disagree about that ec. Not by a very long way the majority view of labour voters as a number of fairly damning polls have shown. As with the tories, you will find that activists are a lot more extreme and motivated than the average voter.

I saw a bit of pmq too and it's a breeze for cameron
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no ..i meant just within the party..the majority of people who voted in the leader election voted for Corbyn..but that doesn't appear to be reflected when just looking at his support from MPs. I wonder what the % of labour MP's actually support him..i'll wager its nothing like the % support he got to be leader. So you keep hearing about this large mandate from the party..but little actual support from MP's
 
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