The election 2015

one thing Milliband has been quite clear about is there will be NO dealings whatsover with SNP..if he goes back on that in any way there is no way the Labour Party will be a force in future..he has clearly stated this on numerous occasions..if people get shagged with a turn round on this then there is no point in listening to anything he says

I think there's a counter argument here though.

Miliband will come under a lot of pressure from MP's, party members, donors, and rank and file voters to stop the Tories if the maths allows him to do so. Indeed, you could argue he has a moral duty to do so given that Cameron clearly intends to punish the most vulnerable in society (Miliband isn't personally going to be affected of course). If he doesn't take that opportunity, there's going to be a lot of disillusioned people equalyl asking what the point of voting Labour is too. He's got a bit of a lose/ lose on this one
 
First we had Salmond, now we have this making a racket Sturgeon for the SNP.
Irritating is an understatement.
 
First we had Salmond, now we have this making a racket Sturgeon for the SNP.
Irritating is an understatement.

I suggest writing to your Tory/Labour MP and requesting that the next time it looks like Scotland may vote for independence, that they don't tell lies in order to keep them. That'll sort the problem. (And we won't have to put up with whichever ******* idiot you've voted in this time).
 
Sooner Scotland goes it alone the better.
The fools who believed the politicians I can only assume think the moon is still made of cheese.
 
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No one in Scotland would want independence if money was equally distributed instead of it being centred around the greedy south

if Scotland had gone it alone then the north of england would have turned into the new scotland..it basically is now

maybe the north of england and scotland should join together and totally remove the two main parties from our minds and votes
 
That's politics son. Common place I'm afraid.

It's to be expected that politicians might not tell the truth all the time, it is not to be expected that the three main parties in Britain should get together two days before a referendum and make specific guarantees (they used the word guarantee), which then resulted in a huge swing away from independence, which they, 24 hours after the referendum then proceeded to repudiate in a "did we say guarantee? what we meant was maybe. Well actually we didn't mean any of it".

and don't call me son, wee man.
 
It's to be expected that politicians might not tell the truth all the time, it is not to be expected that the three main parties in Britain should get together two days before a referendum and make specific guarantees (they used the word guarantee), which then resulted in a huge swing away from independence, which they, 24 hours after the referendum then proceeded to repudiate in a "did we say guarantee? what we meant was maybe. Well actually we didn't mean any of it".

and don't call me son, wee man.

Had enough of this braveheart nonsense in the Independence campaign wee man.

Tiggers is bang on. Get over it.
 
which then resulted in a huge swing away from independence

What huge swing?

As I recall, one rogue opinion poll on the Sunday put the Yes campaign ahead for the first and only time in the entire campaign , something like 51%, 52%?. Someone in clan Cameron panicked (this is a man who'd have us believe he's going to renegotiate Lisbon incidentally) and Labour's heaviest hitter, 'a lying Scotsman' (Gordon Brown was wheeled out) this needn't be an English thing, Scots lying to Scots was a pretty strong theme too.

In the first case, one opinion poll out of hundreds commissioned doesn't constitute a base from which to project a swing off. Others taken in the same period were reporting anywhere between 45% and 48%. The swing is the switch from one to the other, so even if it was 52% the actual swing would have been 3.5%. It's not huge, and was more likely 2%

I would tend to disagree with your assertion that:

"it is not to be expected that the three main parties in Britain should get together two days before a referendum and make specific guarantees"

I would say it's entirely to be expected! and when I saw who was tasked with the job, William Hague, the single most useless politician of his generation, it was all but confirmed.

I think there's a danger that the Scots have started to take the nationalist debate into negotation, although I could be persuaded that this is evidence of the natural direction of mature travel equally. We're in pretty uncharted territory.

I don't think telling lies was restricted to the Westminster parties though, albeit I think the SNP were probably more guilty of speculative blagging. I expect them to come back with a tighter case next time.

If the Westminster parties have made a fool of you Simmo, then fair enough, that happens. I'm reminded of a quote from John Cleese;

"It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't handle"

In terms of being made to look like you've been had though, sapre a thought for the poor people in South West England once who were tricked into voting for a 'literal democrat' who appeared on the ballot sheet ahead of the 'liberal democrat' (that was an independent Tory trick incidentally). The only thing I do know from casting my vote and running campaigns against Labour in the past is that both the Liberals and Tories are very grateful, but I equally understand that if it's become a matter of principle you have to do what's right.

I do think you if you're calling for integrity though, then you should be prepared to set an example and be honest enough to admit your contribution towards putting the Tories into power though. Seeking to blame third parties is a pretty feeble dereliction and refusal to accept any culpability discredits you. I know I was always prepared to do so
 
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Had enough of this braveheart nonsense in the Independence campaign wee man.

Tiggers is bang on. Get over it.

Regarding the democratic rights of 10% of the population of your country as "Braveheart nonsense" is fairly representative of the English view of democracy these days.

You don't need to be a complete prick every day you know, you can take a day off from it now and then.
 
Regarding the democratic rights of 10% of the population of your country as "Braveheart nonsense" is fairly representative of the English view of democracy these days.

You don't need to be a complete prick every day you know, you can take a day off from it now and then.

Your diplomacy skills are unrivalled :lol:

You can take the year off then pal.
 
The bullingdon boys have won me a fortune,thank god I don't have to give them any back in tax...
 
I wouldn't bank on it. If your double relies on the lib Dems being part of the government there is a real chance that might not be necessary. Also the 365 seats bets you put up are losers.
 
I wouldn't bank on it. If your double relies on the lib Dems being part of the government there is a real chance that might not be necessary. Also the 365 seats bets you put up are losers.

I've had around 13 bets on the election those bets in the indies were to a couple of hundred quid,i had 8k on the tories to get 285+ seats at evens as I said on here massive bet, and topped up at 1/4 and a bit on betfair..also did Cameron at 5/4 pm and coalition at 4/1.Pretty much spot on bar seat totals
 
What huge swing?

I do think you if you're calling for integrity though, then you should be prepared to set an example and be honest enough to admit your contribution towards putting the Tories into power though. Seeking to blame third parties is a pretty feeble dereliction and refusal to accept any culpability discredits you. I know I was always prepared to do so

52% to 45% is a fairly large swing.

In your last paragraph, you're making the error of not taking into account the complete sea change in Scottish politics. The reality is that we don't actually give a toss who is in power in Westminster anymore - we don't want to be part of it. To that extent, your earlier statement that the Tories is a better result is probably correct.
 
I've had around 13 bets on the election those bets in the indies were to a couple of hundred quid,i had 8k on the tories to get 285+ seats at evens as I said on here massive bet, and topped up at 1/4 and a bit on betfair..also did Cameron at 5/4 pm and coalition at 4/1.Pretty much spot on bar seat totals

gigolo, the things you do to make an election night interesting!
 
some splendid quotes from Labour in Scotland tonight.

Tom Harris responding to a question asking why he wouldn't be retaining his seat - "well, lack of votes mostly"

An incumbent labour candidate in a Fife constituency explaining why they wouldn't be at the returning vote - "childcare issues"

Warbler - 100,000 people is a fair number......
 
100,000 is about the size of the electorate of the Isle of Wight.

It's hardly a "huge swing" is it?

The irony is, had Cameron not panicked and held his nerve, the probability is that the result would have been more or less the same. That way no promises would have been made and reneged on, and Labour wouldn't have melted down (not that, that looks like saving them anyway)

I think we're almost certainly watching the beginning of the end for the UK, and Nicola Sturgeon should move quickly now with a full mandate

I also suspect that by the time the evenings out we'll see a very strong north / south divide with Tories making and consolidating their southern bases. I think the UK's fracturing
 
So I think the Tories get a small majority of 10ish

Warbler's polling company saw it, and put the so called experts who were too **** scarred to offer an opinion outside of the blindingly obvious to the sword. The benefits of living in a marginal, well actually three marginals in a line that all share similar structures

Once the mutual self admiration finishes though, Cameron is going to realise that this isn't far off being his nightmare result. It's a conservative majority in name only, the reality is that he's going to be beholden to the closet UKIPers on his own backbench. For all intents and purposes it'll come to function as a coalition, and especially with the prospect of a European referendum on the horizon

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a give away budget in the autumn and another election in February. He's only a couple of by-election defeats away from losing the majority, and all government's lose by elections. The smart play would be to replicate Harold Wilson from 1974 and try and increase your majority to about 25 within 12 months
 
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