The Gold Cup 2010

We went 4-1 and have seen very little interest at the price - and with little rain forecast I can't see how Denman can go off shorter than 4-. I mean, has anyone heard any positive vibes about the horse?

BTW - I'm not saying it is impossible the horse will win (I would probably be a backer at bigger than 5-1), but I just see him as being friendless in the run up to the race.
 
I do not remember them (or anyone) saying Denman was not the same horse when he won the Hennessy....

Tony McCoy and Denman were reunited for the first time since they parted company at Newbury last month as the champion jockey schooled the totesport Cheltenham Gold Cup hopeful at Paul Nicholls' Somerset yard on Thursday morning.
Denman remains firmly on course for a rematch with Kauto Star at Cheltenham next Friday, although part-owner Harry Findlay believes the 10-year-old has his work cut out to repeat the epic 2008 win over his stablemate.
McCoy was called up to replace Sam Thomas for this year's renewal only for the partnership to be torn apart on their first meeting when the heavily odds-on Denman unseated his rider at the third-last fence in the Aon Chase.
Findlay said: "Today was just the second time McCoy had sat on him and it was the first time since Newbury.
"Denman jumped two hurdles, then two schooling fences and then two proper fences.
"He was good and aggressive over the first and then a little slower at the second when McCoy had to cajole him along.
"Some days you can watch him and not have him on your mind, but I would have given him nine out of 10 today.
"He was definitely keen enough when jumping, but Kauto is so ready for the race.
"He has been trained for this race all year and it will take a phenomenal performance for anything to beat Kauto Star."
After an interrupted season throughout 2008-9 due to a heart problem, Denman appeared back to his best when again defying top weight in the Hennessy at Newbury in November.
However, Findlay is of the opinion that was not the same Denman who destroyed the Gold Cup field two years ago with his aggressive front-running style.
He added: "The day we won the Gold Cup, Tony McCoy said that the race would leave its mark and that we needed to be careful with him.
"I spoke to him this morning and he still thinks that.
"He might have won the Hennessy giving away two stone, but I don't think it was the same Denman who won the Gold Cup. He was on fire that day.
"We are unlikely to be so aggressive this time, but we had to do it then as it was the only way of beating Kauto Star."
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Euronymous said:
If Denman was returning to battle after an illness what was Kauto's excuse? Oh, right, he didn't have one.
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Just pointing out the 2 camps of fans’ views at the time of each horse's defeat Euro. Kauto had had an infection in his foot shortly before the race, so the KS camp yelled that he wasn't at his best.

Galileo - yes the KS fans did! The forum was full of comments afterwards about Kauto finally proving his superiority - despite people like myself posting that Denman looked appalling, a shadow of his former self in the paddock.

Euro, if you recall, I defended Denman at some length when I first joined this forum a couple of years ago (Gareth was kind enough to dignify it as a "pace analysis").

I also defended my own view - which is the same as yours - that Kauto Star is not a true stayer and only won his first Gold Cup because the opposition were (are?) a bunch of handicappers and the early pace was incredibly slow. He only won it last year because the only horse that could make him work was seriously below-par. Frankly, he should not have run at all last season.

The gist of my comment was that if both horses turn up in tip-top form there would be a true result and no excuses.
 
redhead said:
I also defended my own view - which is the same as yours - that Kauto Star is not a true stayer and only won his first Gold Cup because the opposition were (are?) a bunch of handicappers and the early pace was incredibly slow. He only won it last year because the only horse that could make him work was seriously below-par. Frankly, he should not have run at all last season.
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When has Kauto Star looked a non-stayer in his life? People assume because he has won a King George and Tingle Creeks that he cannot or does not stay - but it does not stack up.

Look back at Denman's Gold Cup - Kauto Star looked likely to finish down the field coming down the hill only to be closing on Denman coming to the last and then a mistake.

Denman was below par last year - Kauto was below par the year before - it really is not rocket science in my view.

Take Denman out of his Gold Cup and Neptune Collonges would have made Kauto Star look pretty ordinary throughout the race.
 
redhead said:
The gist of my comment was that if both horses turn up in tip-top form there would be a true result and no excuses.
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I fear we've got to the point where whoever loses will be declared to have run below form simply by virtue of having lost.
 
Denman didn't look appalling by any stretch of the imagination before last year's Gold Cup. He'd looked better, yes, but he didn't look too bad at all (he had improved no end on his appearance at Kempton) and seemed to have regained some of his old sparkle.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
I fear we've got to the point where whoever loses will be declared to have run below form simply by virtue of having lost.
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That would be a shame. The pair at their best is what we want and I've a good feeling that is what we'll get. Denman has come alive in the past couple of weeks and Kauto is reported to be in peak form.
 
The fact that not many horses have come from behind this week surely means the tactics for Denman have already been made. I'm loving Carruthers presence in the line-up, we should get a nice strong pace for the first circuit before the Tank takes it up.
 
Kauto Star looked likely to finish down the field coming down the hill only to be closing on Denman coming to the last and then a mistake.
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Funnily enough saw that again today and it was impressive in itself

And how many more furlongs would he have travelled at kempton before anything "outstayed" him i wonder? 5? 10? 40?

Agree with Gal. surely staying dounbts about Kauto were old hat about the time of decimialsation and the three day week?
 
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I think a strong pace will play to Kauto Star's strengths. He has proved that he stays and he has proved that he can jump at speed by winning top races over shorter distances. Hopefully Denman will try to gallop him to submission like he did two years ago. Ha ha ha! I can see Kauto cruising past him at the bottom of the hill.

Somewhat conversely, Denman at 11/2 E/W 1/4 1,2,3 is one of the great each-way thievery bets of all time. Still a small payout when he gets slammed by Kauto and a win bet to nothing incase Kauto Star is brought-down or suchlike.
 
betsmate said:
Somewhat conversely, Denman at 11/2 E/W 1/4 1,2,3 is one of the great each-way thievery bets of all time. Still a small payout when he gets slammed by Kauto and a win bet to nothing incase Kauto Star is brought-down or suchlike.
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Immediate thought, Cyborgo carrying out See More Business. Imagine if something like that happened tomorrow.
 
Oh, blimey, yes, remember that! Let's not even think it. Good, safe jumping by both, nobody on the deck, and a humungous tussle to the line, please! I don't care which one wins, I like them both so much. They fascinate thousands of people and if Racing For Change wants figureheads, these will be the best reps for NH they'll ever have. A dead-heat would be the dream!
 
Cooldine would actually win me more money but Denman it has to be. I think he'll devastate this field on the second circuit.
 
Euronymous said:
Cooldine would actually win me more money but Denman it has to be. I think he'll devastate this field on the second circuit.
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I fear you are going to be seriously disappointed tomorrow - I do not think this clash is going to come off which will be the third year in a row really.
 
Deman to beat Kauto. If he does what he did in 2008 he's unbeatable in my mind. Still his run in the Aon was pretty poor, I was there, though I was at the Hennessy as well where he was magnificent. I hope he is in great shape tommorow and has them niggling going out on the second circuit.
 
Will never ever stop believing in the great, incomparable Kauto, it will be a sleepless night for me just waiting for this race tommorrow is agony.
 
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