The McManus Operation?

He is a man that causes endless intrgue but it is most dissapointing when articles about him such as the one penned by Brough Scott last year are so far removed from good journalism that we learn nothing abov him.
 
Kauto - yes, I would definitely include the trading floor in "gambling" in the sense of pitting one's wits against "the other". Seeing a hidden gem you quietly spied on a recce for growth show its promise and then go stratospheric, bearing your money or your investors' money to greater wealth, would certainly make you glow with success - and not just because of the worth of the deal. There are probably all sorts of interesting psychological aspects such as self-value, intellectual pride, etc. wrapped up in such ventures, whether on the floor, in a new area of business, buying an under-priced property and selling at a super profit, or seeing your £100 play whisker it in the 3.30 at Southwell.

There are probably more masculine than feminine elements to this psyche, in that it's possibly a hark-back to mammoth-hunting mode, rather than staying at home in the cave and roasting it for the family. You're hunting the prey, you're capturing the beast (achieving the goal), and you're bringing it back for everyone to admire (the bison, the Gold Cup, the new Porsche, the mansion in Belgravia) - but far more than that, you've personally triumphed. Then, on to the next prey/goal...

Just shows you don't have to blast away with a shottie to be a great hunter!

I think your point about sporting prowess would tie in with that very strong competitive streak which I think top gamblers/businessmen have to have. Although most sport is about beating other people at their game, it isn't a world apart from beating systems, overcoming commercial or financial obstacles, and so on. If a stockbroker doesn't think he has anything in common with a top gambler, an Olympic athlete, or even the world Mah Jong champion, he'd be wrong. They're all tied by that urge to overcome whatever obstacle is in front of them.
 
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One of the less well known, and intriguing, things about J P McManus was that he made his huge donation to establish a business school in the University of Limerick conditional on it being named after Jim Kemmy, a radical politician from the area:

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=jim+kemmy&lastnode_id=1140332

JP's gesture must have caused a lot of mumbling and staring at the floor by various worthies at the opening ceremony.

I was a member of Jim Kemmy's party, and I'm sure he would have enjoyed a chuckle about JP's gesture, as well as being complimented by it. JP has said that he never would have voted for Jim, but the two of them developed a friendship in the course of which Jim presented JP with a lot of books and reading lists. My guess is that JP wanted ideas from Jim about how best to satisfy his social conscience, and Jim was encouraging JP to think in a deeper way about social and political issues.
 
Mr Kemmy sounds like a real thorn in the side of religious power and control over the people. Good for him - and for bringing about the first family planning unit for the county. Can't believe it was as late as 1975 and vilified even then. Of course, knocked-up Irishwomen were coming over to abort their foetuses in English clinics, a hypocrisy tolerated back home as it was out of sight, out of mind.

As for divorce - well, you had contracted to God, so too bad if you got beaten up every Saturday night by your drunken husband. No wonder Kemmy might've been deeply unpopular in certain quarters. Divorce would mean the godless town halls would later get the re-marriage certificate money.

His party sounds like one which my mother's Irish father would've joined, having renounced his Catholicism as a young man for its lack of practical mercy towards the desperate poor he saw. As it was, he passed on to her a very strong sense of social justice, hence her one-time Communist Party membership - until that, too, betrayed itself with eyeing up materialist goals.
 
SteveM said:
It's not about where you start though, it's where you finish. JP has moved a long way from his beginnings. If it's two steps forward and one back the two forward have been miles bigger.
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Agree, as long as you win more than you lose each year you'll be grand. It just hasn't been all plain sailing. He made a killing on the Irish currency devaluation and another killing on various other currency punts, generally from following the master Dermot Desmond and Joe Lewis. Being a good entrepeneur does not mean you come up with a new product, just follow a willing formula created by someone else. McManus is incredibly lucky he has surrorunded himself with a lot of smart, savvy investors who have as much money as him.
 
Cantoris said:
Should that not have read "another chunk of his money has been LOST on his investments......". Sandy Lane cost them a fortune. They paid a wicked amount for a property in Paris that will never make them a profit. They bought into Mitchells and something in the UK, a pub chain, whose debt was being restructured last year. The nursing home idea is with Denis Brosnan but they bought properties are the height of the boom so while the operating business might be making money, it is not making up for the property value loss.

Like every gambler, you hear about his wins, but rarely about his losses....and there have been many.
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True enough, although I didn't realise that Sandy Lane had turned out to be a bad investment.
 
Cantoris said:
Agree, as long as you win more than you lose each year you'll be grand. It just hasn't been all plain sailing. He made a killing on the Irish currency devaluation and another killing on various other currency punts, generally from following the master Dermot Desmond and Joe Lewis. Being a good entrepeneur does not mean you come up with a new product, just follow a willing formula created by someone else. McManus is incredibly lucky he has surrorunded himself with a lot of smart, savvy investors who have as much money as him.
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“lucky” is a good thing though and I’m a firm believer that you make your own luck... When Napoleon was asked whether he preferred courageous generals or brilliant generals he replied neither, he preferred lucky generals.
 
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But surely luck is just happenstance, Steve? Something that happens by random chance, like winning the Lottery - you got lucky, not necessarily smart/brilliant/courageous.

There is sometimes a happy convergence of circumstances like deciding to go back for a newspaper at the same moment a car mounts the pavement and would've hit you had you stayed there - that could be 'a bit of good luck' as against 'really bad luck'. I don't think you can 'make' it. It's too random and indiscriminate for an element of planned creation.

What appears to be 'good luck' is - imvvho - the result of a set of circumstances coming right at a particular time. And the reverse is true. What I think might be meant is 'you make your own good outcome', just as you can also create a total mess and make your own bad outcome. But that requires input of some sort, either way. Luck? It's just unplannable. Like getting beaned by a piece of space debris that's found its way back to Earth.
 
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Grey said:
My guess is that JP wanted ideas from Jim about how best to satisfy his social conscience, and Jim was encouraging JP to think in a deeper way about social and political issues.
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Donated 1.5m to buy Market Fields for Limerick FC. I do like slag him off (his goalkeeper - Stopper McLernon etc) but it's very hard to knock the man for the money he puts back into projects in this country.
 
granger said:
Piece on JP on Irish radio (Newstalk)between 8-9 tonight. I'll put up a link in the morning for anyone who misses it.
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Thanks - I hope it's not an hour of a presenter falling over themselves on "the great man".
 
Simon said:
True enough, although I didn't realise that Sandy Lane had turned out to be a bad investment.
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They put €250 million into the hotel. That's a lot of nights sleep!! It's a bit like hearing they spent a million a room (purchase and refub) on the Shelbourne in Dublin.....no matter what you charge, you will never get that sort of money back unless it is uber class.
 
Very poor week for this crew. What is more disappointing than getting no winner was the paucity of promising horses coming through. Compare with Michael O'Leary who won three races, finished champion owner and still left some very very promising horses at home - Samain, Westmeath etc -

I think we will see changes in the McManus personnel before long. Cannot see too much light at the end of the tunnel for Aintree or Punchestown either....:blink:
 
Well Binocular was missing and poor Backspin is six feet under .

It is the first year without a McManus winner for heavens knows how many years and GMOOH looked to have dead heated to me !!!
 
On The Bridle said:
I think we will see changes in the McManus personnel before long. Cannot see too much light at the end of the tunnel for Aintree or Punchestown either
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Won't happen while the old man is alive but his son is a law unto himself. O'Leary is now showing an operating profit for the year!!
 
Interesting comment Cantoris-from personal observation away from the racecourse JP likes to be with people he is comfortable with.Spoke to the youngfella once-whereas JP would talk to you the youngfella is arrogant.
 
Get Me Out Of Here sums up the operation. O'Leary is not exempt either because the Davy Russell/French Lieutenant incident earlier in the year was also a disgrace.
 
Hamm said:
What was that Gearoid?
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Hope nobody minds me answering this but basically the horse was a non-trier behind the gambled on Aughnacuraveel in a novices hurdle at Fairyhouse.

Minimal assistance from the saddle is probably the best way of describing DR's riding style that day and there were some interesting comments from a certain ATR pundit post-race IIRC, along the lines of it doesn't matter what DR does and who backed the horse or what the rules say DR rides for Gigginstown House Stud and does what he's told.

Martin
 
It has to be remembered that at the time a problem with the racing surface at Fairyhouse became apparent.Davy would vigorously defend his ride.
 
AP reports that GMOOH choked on the run in and he does put his head up as if gasping for air. If they can get his wind sorted he might be a serious horse again.
 
He could not breath from being strangled all year either, the irony of it all.




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I must say I admire O'Leary's approach to racing. They are all trying. He has no interest in landing gambles, pulling his horses etc etc. If Carlito Brigante and Sir Des Champs improve then they take their chances in the big handicaps but he wants winners of grade 1s, simple as. It's remarkable that before cheltenham he was on course to make an operating profit from his horses, even the young ones in training. That's some achievement.

On McManus, I watched him a few times go over and congratulate the winning connections when he finished in the minor placings. I don't recall seeing O'Leary do that. JP has a genuine love for racing but is a gambler. His son is a gambler and not so sure how much interest he has in horses.
 
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