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The Official Constitution Hill Thread 2025/26

Slim said:
Analogies are always a bad idea, but with hindsight neither Gloria Victus nor Beef Or Salmon should have run in a Gold Cup. Others will point to the novice that won the race in the meantime.
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I would have said that Gloria Victus should never have run in the Gold Cup due to the fact he jumped markedly right (?) and was therefore jumping away from where there was almost certainly a problem brewing.

Anyway, Slim - I have tried to answer your question about horses being asked to jump and can you change it. I think it partly lies with Nico as he will be feeling apprehensive however much schooling he and the horse do at home. It doesn't get away from the fact that on the big stage, it's normal for nerves to kick in - human and equine. And those nerves will be transmitted down the reins. Horses are incredibly perceptive as to the rider on top and will react accordingly. There was a horse running at Badbury yesterday which doddled it's way around the back of the field with a novice rider. His trainer said to me "you should see the difference in the horse when an experienced rider gets on - suddenly wakes up!" But this horse was being used as a schoolmaster and was jumping safely around at the back, giving them much needed experience.
 
jinnyj said:
I would have said that Gloria Victus should never have run in the Gold Cup due to the fact he jumped markedly right (?) and was therefore jumping away from where there was almost certainly a problem brewing.

Anyway, Slim - I have tried to answer your question about horses being asked to jump and can you change it. I think it partly lies with Nico as he will be feeling apprehensive however much schooling he and the horse do at home. It doesn't get away from the fact that on the big stage, it's normal for nerves to kick in - human and equine. And those nerves will be transmitted down the reins. Horses are incredibly perceptive as to the rider on top and will react accordingly. There was a horse running at Badbury yesterday which doddled it's way around the back of the field with a novice rider. His trainer said to me "you should see the difference in the horse when an experienced rider gets on - suddenly wakes up!" But this horse was being used as a schoolmaster and was jumping safely around at the back, giving them much needed experience.
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Superb reply and exactly whose opinion I was looking for.
 
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Slim said:
I think racing is actually creating the hysteria itself
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I was just making this point to a friend. The public (excl. racing fans) really don't give a shit about what is going on with Constitution Hill, and if he did fall and die it would not be "the final nail in the coffin" or the gigantic PR disaster that people are acting like it would be. It would be in the news for a day or two, and then the world would move on because they simply just don't care.

Annoyingly, it would give animal rights lunatics another drum to bang
 
I think it’s more that people who understand and follow racing would be totally horrified and hugely fvcked off, if the worst happened to CH. A few would turn their back and never return again.

This should be a job for the BHA. Why are they taking no responsibility?
 
Len Madeiros said:
I think it’s more that people who understand and follow racing would be totally horrified and hugely fvcked off, if the worst happened to CH. A few would turn their back and never return again.

This should be a job for the BHA. Why are they taking no responsibility?
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Because ultimately there is nothing in the rules that they have the powers to stop him running.

A few years ago I tried to get a horse at a point to point stopped from running. It was 17 and looked like a hairy pony. But there was nothing in the rules that could stop him running. He did a circuit and promptly dropped dead as he was ridden back to the lorry park. It was during Covid so it was "behind closed doors" but had there been a crowd there, people would have been asking why he was allowed to run. I did manage to get a ruling through that ALL horses running in points over the age of 15 must have a full veterinary health certificate before an entry is made. James Given, the BHA chief vet wants it brought down to 13 (as so I) but it's very difficult as trainers have objected. James says there seems to be a magic age deterioration at 13 and they are more prone to heart issues from that age.
 
jinnyj said:
Because ultimately there is nothing in the rules that they have the powers to stop him running.

A few years ago I tried to get a horse at a point to point stopped from running. It was 17 and looked like a hairy pony. But there was nothing in the rules that could stop him running. He did a circuit and promptly dropped dead as he was ridden back to the lorry park. It was during Covid so it was "behind closed doors" but had there been a crowd there, people would have been asking why he was allowed to run. I did manage to get a ruling through that ALL horses running in points over the age of 15 must have a full veterinary health certificate before an entry is made. James Given, the BHA chief vet wants it brought down to 13 (as so I) but it's very difficult as trainers have objected. James says there seems to be a magic age deterioration at 13 and they are more prone to heart issues from that age.
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Thanks Jinny.

The rules need changing.
 
Hi Jinny, there is a catchall rule they can invoke:
The BHA may refuse to allow or prevent any horse from running in a race.”
The Authority may also accept or refuse to accept any submitted, amended or withdrawn entry (“Transaction Notice”), impose such conditions or restrictions as it considers appropriate on any entry, and, in the case of refusing an entry, direct that entry fees be refunded to the owner."
 
Who sets the rules?

The BHA can set any rules it wants.

Like Joe, I think there is scope to intervene within the existing rules but, if not, they can always swiftly create a new cover-all rule then enables them to intervene and ban any act that they feel potentially brings the sport into disrepute - simple.

But the BHA is run by career executives, more interested in ensuring they don't rock the boat as they move from industry to industry on the executive gravy train, then in decisive, sometimes even unprecedented, action.

They won't lay themselves on the line by fronting up to anyone, not the bookmakers, not the racecourses and not connections who are contemplating making the unilateral decision to risk the sport's entire reputation by running their high-profile multiple faller in yet another big jumps race.
 
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Steeplechasing said:
Hi Jinny, there is a catchall rule they can invoke:
The BHA may refuse to allow or prevent any horse from running in a race.”
The Authority may also accept or refuse to accept any submitted, amended or withdrawn entry (“Transaction Notice”), impose such conditions or restrictions as it considers appropriate on any entry, and, in the case of refusing an entry, direct that entry fees be refunded to the owner."
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I'm probably going on what I have experienced through pointing which of course runs under a different (but still BHA) set of rules. I seem to recall they prevented a horse from running in the Derby a few years ago due to it being so lowly rated? And then changed the rules afterwards. I think potentially they could change them to "a horse must not have fallen more than twice in its last five starts to compete at Cheltenham" After all they police what runs at Aintree?

But you would cause an uproar if they just refused him at the moment on those grounds as we are so close to the race.

Ultimately it is down to the moral conscience of Michael Buckley as he has the final say.
 
Ian_Davies said:
connections who are contemplating making the unilateral decision to risk the sport's entire reputation by running their high-profile multiple faller in yet another big jumps race.
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No individual owner should have the final say over something that potentially impacts the entire sport.

The BHA might be at least warning Michael Buckley about their possible intervention, they certainly should be at least warning him about their possible intervention, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if they are.
 
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I'd like to think the BHA are leaving it late in hope Buckley will withdraw the horse. If, not they have nothing whatever to lose in stopping further runs over obstacles. There'd be the usual 24 hours of 'nanny state' social media moans and that would be it.
 
notsodancingbrave said:
If the BHA did intervene and block CH from running, what would that mean for any antepost bets that weren't placed after the NRNB came into play?
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I'd love to answer and say it might depend on the bookmaker, but my guess is they'd be voided same as when a horse is balloted out, but you've used an acronym, Inspector Daniel Of The Yard has evidently got me under constant surveillance and I don't want to be guilty by association by responding.
 
Ian_Davies said:
I'd love to answer and say it might depend on the bookmaker, but my guess is they'd be voided same as when a horse is balloted out, but you've used an acronym, Inspector Daniel Of The Yard has evidently got me under constant surveillance and I don't want to be guilty by association by responding.
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Mea Culpa, but at least I didnt say CH in the CH....
 
The Fortune Teller said:
www.racingpost.com

Constitution Hill's crucial schooling session to take place on Wednesday with Champion Hurdle fate '50-50'

Nicky Henderson also addressed the 'wacky' Melbourne Cup idea and a potential next Flat target
www.racingpost.com www.racingpost.com

The latest
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He’d be 1/3 with 0 falls.

He’s running, they’re just playing the game and illusion to us the decision isn’t made.
They couldn’t do a gallop to sharpen him as that would also imply a decision was made. So it was a flat race and they just happened to piss up.

This will be his last hurdles race Ive no doubt. And he probably jumps sound at home tbh, they’re chancing it. Ill be watching him jumping the last between my fingers as Nico has to surely sit him 4 wide and pop. At the last he’ll have no option but to quicken up.
 
Connections have more to lose than to gain if they choose to run him at Cheltenham - God forbid if owt negative happened to him and the reaction and the damage to the sport as a whole it would create. He owes then nothing and has already won a champion and a supreme. A flat campaign is the sensible target, the Southwell run suggested that he ran to a level of around 100 to 105 , with further improvement a possibility given than was his flat debut at the age of 9. The perfect target in the spring is the Yorkshire Cup in May, any talk of the Melbourne Cup in November is insane as the Going is usually either like a road or like a bog - neither of which suits the horse, and then there is the strict Aussie Vets checks to pass, and that is all providing he has an official rating by then. A late Summer / Autumn target more suitable looks to be the Irish St Leger. Absolutely no need to risk him over hurdles again and anyone backing him over timber would need to ensure they have a good supply of bog paper at hand.
 
Might And Power said:
Connections have more to lose than to gain if they choose to run him at Cheltenham - God forbid if owt negative happened to him and the reaction and the damage to the sport as a whole it would create. He owes then nothing and has already won a champion and a supreme. A flat campaign is the sensible target, the Southwell run suggested that he ran to a level of around 100 to 105 , with further improvement a possibility given than was his flat debut at the age of 9. The perfect target in the spring is the Yorkshire Cup in May, any talk of the Melbourne Cup in November is insane as the Going is usually either like a road or like a bog - neither of which suits the horse, and then there is the strict Aussie Vets checks to pass, and that is all providing he has an official rating by then. A late Summer / Autumn target more suitable looks to be the Irish St Leger. Absolutely no need to risk him over hurdles again and anyone backing him over timber would need to ensure they have a good supply of bog paper at hand.
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Irish St Leger is above his pay grade. No chance he'd have beaten Al Riffa or Kyprios

If they are serious about a flat career, they should be focussing on things he can actually win (The Ebor). He is 9 years old after all, time isn't a luxury they can afford
 

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