The Poppy

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Grey said:
Everyone can understand that war is a horrendous experience for those who go through it and that far too many young men and women lost their lives or their sanity in the trenches and elsewhere during the two world wars. Two of my grand uncles were killed during WW1, one in Flanders and one at sea. If this was all that the poppy was about, a reminder of the human price that is paid when countries go to war, I would be all in favour, and I know that many people who wear it do so for this reason.

I have a queasy feeling, however, that for some in the British establishment there is more to it than that. For example the poster with Helen Mirren, which says 'The troops are the real stars', is straying into different territory. Here is an attempt to use remembrance of past sacrifice in order to enlist sympathy, if not support, for the military campaigns of today. This tendency is a relatively recent thing, and as Grassy mentions, what used to be an individual choice is becoming an institutional obligation for the likes of BBC presenters, even in Northern Ireland, and footballers.
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That's exactly what I was trying to say on page 1. Thank you Sir!!
 
I think the British Horses should wear a poppy on their headband or all saddle clothes should have a large imprinted poppy for tomorrow.

Would have brought a lot of good attention to racing, remembering those who fought for us.
 
It's been pretty coherent but I struggle from 7:59 last night

Not all Irish people are happy about their president.
Some don't find it offensive. Irish soldiers volunteered, they were not compelled to fight for the British. The Irish government could have declared themselves neutral.
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??
 
redhead said:
I'm a bit mystified though, as to why FIFA bans charities, but allows advertising of multinational businesses on footballers' strips.
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Sponsorship doesn't feature on shirts worn in international games (although manafacturer's logos do).
 
The usual sneers about "british campaigns" and "british establishment" but as ever with the dim left, west haters and anglophobes, no alternative is given. Nothing at all...

If the "british establishment" have taken a wrong step it is in not making clear where we would be now if no action had been taken in Afganistan. Its not difficult and maybe they assume that the electorate fully understand that an AQ state sitting bang next to a sympathetic and chaotic nuclear armed shambles of a nation is not exactly desirable

We should be extremely proud that that has been largely defeated and that we didnt just stand by wringing our hands, niot just for our sakes but alsio for the afgans who were living under one of the most vile regimes imaginable and also (and this is often forgotten) but states beyond the assumed AQ targets of the west such as India and (believe it or not) Iran
 
On a cold November Sunday morn, an old man sits a while
Looking though old photographs, he can’t help but smile
They’re all there, all the boys, with hair cut short and neat
Uniforms of khaki, strong black boots upon their feet.
They met as strangers but soon became like brothers to the end
Smiling at the camera, there could be no truer friends.
They all took the Queen’s shilling, went off to fight the hun,
Soon learnt the pain of loss once the fighting had begun.
So many never made it home, lost on foreign shores
Many more were injured and would be the same no more.
The old man’s eyes mist with tears as he remembers every face
Each of his fallen brothers and the killing which took place
He proudly dons his beret, his blazer and his tie
For today he will remember the ones who fell and died.
On his chest there is a poppy, a blaze of scarlet on the blue
He steps out into the cold, he has a duty he must do
Once at the cenotaph he stands amongst the ranks
Of those who marched to war and those who manned the tanks,
He bows his head in reverence, as the last post begins to play
And he wonders what will happen at the ending of his days
Will anyone remember? Will anybody care?
About the lads so far from home whose life was ended there?
I wish that I could tell him, that he should fear not
For this soldier and his brothers will NEVER be forgot
We owe a debt of gratitude that we can never pay
And this country WILL remember them, on each Remembrance day.

Maria Cassee
 
clivex said:
The usual sneers about "british campaigns" and "british establishment" but as ever with the dim left, west haters and anglophobes, no alternative is given. Nothing at all...

If the "british establishment" have taken a wrong step it is in not making clear where we would be now if no action had been taken in Afganistan. Its not difficult and maybe they assume that the electorate fully understand that an AQ state sitting bang next to a sympathetic and chaotic nuclear armed shambles of a nation is not exactly desirable

We should be extremely proud that that has been largely defeated and that we didnt just stand by wringing our hands, niot just for our sakes but alsio for the afgans who were living under one of the most vile regimes imaginable and also (and this is often forgotten) but states beyond the assumed AQ targets of the west such as India and (believe it or not) Iran
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You are such a cliche of yourself!

Comment about left - tick.
Comment about west/Israel haters - tick.
Comment about defeating Taliban/AQ (who cares if the exact opposite has happened) - tick
Using extremes to try and emphasise your point - tick
Pigeonholing and labelling people who carry an opinion different to your own - tick
 
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swedish chef said:
On a cold November Sunday morn, an old man sits a while
Looking though old photographs, he can’t help but smile
They’re all there, all the boys, with hair cut short and neat
Uniforms of khaki, strong black boots upon their feet.
They met as strangers but soon became like brothers to the end
Smiling at the camera, there could be no truer friends.
They all took the Queen’s shilling, went off to fight the hun,
Soon learnt the pain of loss once the fighting had begun.
So many never made it home, lost on foreign shores
Many more were injured and would be the same no more.
The old man’s eyes mist with tears as he remembers every face
Each of his fallen brothers and the killing which took place
He proudly dons his beret, his blazer and his tie
For today he will remember the ones who fell and died.
On his chest there is a poppy, a blaze of scarlet on the blue
He steps out into the cold, he has a duty he must do
Once at the cenotaph he stands amongst the ranks
Of those who marched to war and those who manned the tanks,
He bows his head in reverence, as the last post begins to play
And he wonders what will happen at the ending of his days
Will anyone remember? Will anybody care?
About the lads so far from home whose life was ended there?
I wish that I could tell him, that he should fear not
For this soldier and his brothers will NEVER be forgot
We owe a debt of gratitude that we can never pay
And this country WILL remember them, on each Remembrance day.

Maria Cassee
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Beautiful Chef - that's what it is all about in my opinion.
 
Hamm
You are clearly unable to answer the points directly (and given your statement that "everyone" should have access to nuclear weapons, its probably best you do not try to do so), so why are you wasting your time in the deep end??

Swedish chef

not seen that before... nice piece
 
clivex said:
Hamm
You are clearly unable to answer the points directly (and given your statement that "everyone" should have access to nuclear weapons, its probably best you do not try to do so), so why are you wasting your time in the deep end??

Swedish chef

not seen that before... nice piece
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Answer what?!
 
Not all Irish people are happy about their president.
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What does that mean in the context of this debate?

Some don't find it offensive.
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Like me. I don't. But some do.

Irish soldiers volunteered, they were not compelled to fight for the British. The Irish government could have declared themselves neutral.
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Erm. Slight problem here. We didn't have a government. And once we did, we have declared ourselves neutral.

So not in a restaurant, or a pop concert, or in the street, or in an office......
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Must be missing some context here.

It's nothing to do with politics. It's symbol of remembrance. The men who stand at the Menin Gate EVERY day are not making a political statement.
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They may not be, I don't know. But just because you say it is nothing to do with politics, doesn't make it so. Plenty of people on this thread feel it is about politics.

And whoever said it was defeating the Nazis, the poppy is from the First World War, not the Second, although used to commerate those lost in that conflict as well as others.
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Damn straight. But it commemorates all soldiers killed in all conflicts, including the illegal war against Iraq. Some people have a problem with that.
 
For me, the poppy is just how people express sadness and thanking for the people who gave their lives when danger threatened.

No need to get picky, leave your minds out of it and go with their hearts, why not?

Definitely not any arguments to be had - some 'subjects' are just not, by natural taste.
 
To me the poppy represents all those who gave their lives to allow us to have free speech. I may not agree with some of the opinions on here, but the fact people are freely allowed to express them without recrimination is much more important.
 
An unnecessary sneer

Yeah m sure that if Germany and its allies been allowed to overrun europe they would have maintained the democratic rights of the invaded countries. Im sure they would have been happy to have elections where by they could have simply been voted out
 
My family have been long involved in the British Legion and organising poppy collections and I remain a supporter. That does not stop me believing that many of the wars Britain has fought have been wrong and that many of the soldiers were themselves wronged.
The poppy appeal is for those who have fought or are fighting for their country. Giving is not cndoning any conflict whatsoever. Ideally there would be no soldiers to help or remember but there are. I would donate to an appeal to help former German soldiers. To my mind Rembrance is a time for regretting all wars and remembering how awful they are. Not at all political.
 
clivex said:
An unnecessary sneer

Yeah m sure that if Germany and its allies been allowed to overrun europe they would have maintained the democratic rights of the invaded countries. Im sure they would have been happy to have elections where by they could have simply been voted out
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How many countries were under British rule at the time?.
 
Perhaps but he was battered on the point in question and has to try somehow

Plenty were of course and they mostly fought alongside us and are significantly remembered in the remeberence parades of course.

And they also fought and backed freedom in the second world war and certainly didnt send condolences on hitlers death just as the concentration camps were being liberated (bit unnecessary from me that...maybe)

Forget this stuff now and ill be watching tomorrow the always very moving parade at the cenotaph. The last post< nimrod and the beethoven piece are amongst some of the most moving renditions of any music uyou will hear anywhere at any time
 
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