The Road to the 2017 Champion Hurdle

Euronymous said:
Switch positions, have Barry on the inside and Ruby on the outer (admittedly different than my earlier post) and you have a reversal. That's all arguable I guess, I do think the CH would be right up the King's horse alleypipe. He travels like a dream.
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I do like Yanworth and fancied him going in to it but just have to take it on the chin. I do think you have underestimated just how easy the winner won. The winner had more gears and probably hit the front plenty soon enough.
 
Slight hints again that one should ignore everything that falls out of his word-hole, the lying POS.

PS. I'll get over it when he runs Vautour in the next Gold Cup, and not before.
 
Edit: Sorry, granger.....realise now you mean World Hurdle, rather than William Hill! :lol:

:whistle:
 
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Wouldn't read too much into it.

Faugheen was self-evidently massively under-cooked at the Morgiana last season. They are likely to have gone reasonably steady with him to this point, and the Hattons Grace gives them an extra couple of weeks to get him ready.

Mind you, nothing these connections do, surprises me any more.
 
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granger said:
If he runs in the WH, it means he is about 75% of the horse he was
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Don't know about that Granger. I can't remember when Mullins first mentioned stepping Faugheen up in trip but I'm pretty sure it was well before he was back in work.

As we know Mullins has not one but 2 horses well capable of winning the Champion Hurdle but one. Annie Power, has been seen to struggle with the trip.

As far as financial rewards go finishing 1st and 2nd in the Champion Hurdle falls over 50k short of winning The Champion Hurdle and the World Hurdle but to Ricci the Prestige of winning both may be more fitting with his ego.

The World Hurdle has been a bit of a joke over the last couple of years with only Thistlecrack really shining against what can only be described as moderate opposition.

Thistlecrack does look the part but we have often fallen into the trap of thinking horses are much better than they really are when serious opposition is lacking.

The fact he has been made favourite for the Gold Cup is the joke of the century. Thistlecrack has met nothing in the class of Vautour's, Don Poli's, Don Cossacks, Cue Cards, Coneygree's and certainly never came withing a mile of anything as good as Douvan. The horse hasn't even jumped a fence in public it's like the bookies are looking to con punters into the belief he's the next friggin Arkle. When he goes chasing he's not going to diminate like he can against crap opposition and then we'll find out if he is as good as some think.

Getting back on track I can see why Mullins Ricci or heading WH with Faugheen because basically both races could be there for the taking.
 
A FORMER resident could come back to bite Willie Mullins after Gordon Elliott revealed to the Racing Post that Apple's Jade will be trained with the Stan James Champion Hurdle in mind this season, not the OLBG Mares' Hurdle.



Mullins has won four of the last six runnings of the Champion Hurdle with Hurricane Fly (twice), Faugheen and Annie Power but Apple's Jade, the Triumph Hurdle runner-up who went on the win the Grade 1 juvenile hurdles at Aintree and Punchestown by a combined total of 50 lengths for the Irish champion trainer, now looks the biggest danger to his dominance.
Apple's Jade is as short as 2-1 for the Mares' Hurdle but the Champion Hurdle, for which she is a general 8-1 chance, is her main aim and she looks likely to make her reappearance in the Grade 3 Fishery Lane Hurdle at Naas on November 12.
"She is an amazing horse to get into the yard. She looks so exciting. I have never had a proper Champion Hurdle hope before. With Identity Thief going chasing, I would imagine Apple's Jade will be aimed at the Champion Hurdle," Elliott said.
He added: "We are not 100 per cent sure where she will start off but at the moment I am looking at the Fishery Lane Hurdle at Naas in the second week of November. She hasn't done a full, proper piece of work yet but she is set to do one over the next couples of days. Of all the Gigginstown horses that were coming out of Willie's, Apple's Jade was probably the one I wanted most along with Blow By Blow."
 
Taking-on juveniles, in G1 hurdles, in their first season in open company, is wheat in the barn.

Apple's Jade was undoubtedly impressive last season, but her rout of Ivanovich Gorbatov at Aintree is more a reflection of her resolution, than it is her talent. For all that the double has been done on occasion, the Triumph form is often reversed in the Anniversary, and I think she was probably just more robust than a lot of her peers, at the tail-end of last season. Clearly she is smart, but she is rated about 8lbs shy of Our Conor at the same stage, and even as impressive a juvenile as he was, he didn't quite manage to bridge the gap to the top-guns, in his open season over hurdles. Can she seriously reach the level of Annie Power, let alone a 100% fit Faugheen?

True, Apples Jade will get the Mares allowance (but then again, so will Annie Power), but last season's juveniles didn't look a particularly strong bunch imo, and I couldn't have her on my short-list for a Champion Hurdle. Yanworth at double the price makes much more appeal, if I'm ignoring the Ricci horses.*

* I'm not. I reckon Faugheen will hack-up.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Taking-on juveniles, in G1 hurdles, in their first season in open company, is wheat in the barn.

Apple's Jade was undoubtedly impressive last season...Can she seriously reach the level of Annie Power, let alone a 100% fit Faugheen?
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Interesting trends-based analysis of juvenile hurdlers.

Don't have the figures but there might be at least as much mileage in taking on nine-year-old hurdlers in top company, especially those returning from serious injury.

All about opinions, of course.
 
As always, Gus. The Faugheen apple has a long way to fall, before it hits the ground though (assuming it goes that way).
 
Apple Jade would've eaten Our Conor alive, I can't see any comparisons except being the leading juveniles of their respective seasons.

My strategy reg. Faugheen has been to include him in every possible accumulator with him in the CH at 3/1, and a single 100 quid bet for the WH to recover all the lost bank if he's switched by lunatics RR/Mullins who should've sent a P2P winner over 3 miles for the Gold Cup a long time ago. What is he doing in the CH ?!
 
Aughex said:
Apple Jade would've eaten Our Conor alive, I can't see any comparisons except being the leading juveniles of their respective seasons.

My strategy reg. Faugheen has been to include him in every possible accumulator with him in the CH at 3/1, and a single 100 quid bet for the WH to recover all the lost bank if he's switched by lunatics RR/Mullins who should've sent a P2P winner over 3 miles for the Gold Cup a long time ago. What is he doing in the CH ?!
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If you can find any ratings agency....or enthusiastic amateur......who had Our Conor on a lower-mark than Apples Jade, after their juvenile seasons ended, I will be very surprised indeed.
 
form and mares allowance, what did Our Conor beat after all? His runner-up to his hurdle maiden win never won a race, he struggled to win his second race, he defeated Diakali next who never reached the high class bracket, and what he did in the Triumph was good but not comparable with AJ's anomaly at Aintree. Plus AJ would receive 7lbs from him so even at his best he's not comparable with AJ. Now looking at the RP figures they're both at 164, however OC never again displayed a higher performance than 160, i have a feeling AJ would perform again to figures well over 160 and would be able to fend off AP. AJ is 157p with Timeform meaning they expect her to improve considerably. OC highest TF rating is 161 for the Triumph which again would leave him behind given the allowance, and potential improvement for AJ.
 
Our Conor was rated 165p by Timeform after his juvenile season, in Chasers & Hurdlers 2012/2013, which I guess means they must have expected him to improve considerably.

By comparison, Apples Jade is rated 157p in this year's Annual.
 
well on the extra evidence they dropped his performance to 161 in the Triumph. On all known evidence AJ would therefore kick his ass, while if further evidence will drop her rating and will suggest she isn't so good then this statement will be revised as well. But my feelings are she will continue to put 160+ ratings if racing against quality animals.
 
RR is in the jumps racing, but acts like a soulless flat man, only money matters to him not the prestige so he'll try to win as many races and put some horses where they shouldn't run in order to achieve this objective. Again what is a P2Per doing over 2 mile hurdles instead of going for the GC, no one knows, even Faugheen's breeder has this question unanswered.
 
Apples jade looks a tremendously exciting prospect but until he runs against decent older horses in Jan/ Feb I would not take any price her winning the champion hurdle. Like flat horses going from 2 to 3 so young hurdlers have to improve massively again to compete against the older horses. Faugheen is a top notch champion hurdle winner and Annie power is not far behind. Im sure if there's one race w Mullins will want to win is the champion hurdle in the coming season with apples jade as opposition I hope he trains faugheen for the race.
 
I'd say the Gold Cup is his real priority.

AJ will have to improve by near a stone to win.

hiven that Gigi own her, she will race exclusively in Ireland pre March so will have to take on the big boys sooner rather than later.

the hurdle race at down Royal usually attracts a good horse or two.
 
Apple Jade is undoubtedly good..but there is something about that out of the blue Aintree win that don't ring true.with me..its one of those..is that immense or is it flukey wins.....whereas Our Conor put in consistent figures as a juvenile and anyone munching quavers with a stopwatch couldn't have failed to back him in the triumph. i doubt any juvenile could have handed his arse to him....he was going the right way before that fateful CH..one of the few that bustled up the Fly in his favourite race the Irish CH.

What could have been...we will never know..same with Golden Cygnet..how good if had stayed alive..no one will know... I remeber Golden Cygnet..i remember the extel commentary at the time..was going to beat Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon in their pomp..when just a young gun..what potential was there?..anyone my age will look back at Golden Cygnet with sadness at what happened.
 
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