The Road to the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2014

Aye; a bit different to his daughter, who told she wasn't sure she was over her problems. :lol:
 
Last edited:
Wow, missed that interview. What about Criquette - brain tumour at 40, cancer about 8 yrs ago, lost some big owners, down on winners and then home bred, Treve. She's always looking forwards. Great training performance.
Motivator now stands in France bcos fickle breeders want results.
 
Phenomenal training performance. To get a 4yo filly back to her best after having had physical and quite probably mental problems after those defeats shows what a truly great trainer Criquette Head is. And dumping Dettori probably one of her better judgements. He didn't gel with the filly and getting Jarnet back on board will have helped restore her confidence. 10/10!
 
To be fair to Frankie he won on her on his first ride, ran up against a tip top Cirrus FTO this year and then ground too fast at Royal Ascot when Frankie minded her as best he could.
No fault either to Criquette or T Jarnet .
The Heads are legendary but are also a law onto themselves.
Who else would have as disparate a group of house guests as The Queen and Eamonn Dunphy, the latter after whom they named a horse.
The Head family always rewrite Arc history since their Champion Hurdle runner up won it in 1947. More power to them !
 
Think fixing Treve's back not the jockey made the difference.
What was the jockey thinking of on Harp Star, last turning in, clown!
Couple of cracking rides from Moore today too and that was vintage Frankie on Olympic Glory.
 
TREVE was trained for one race and one race only, but you have to work that out for yourself, it's ashame they hide all this but what a great great horse none the less. I could not belive my eyes seeing TREVE at 10/1 after her run in the Vermeile, it was clear that was just a run out.
 
EC1 said:
did you post that view before the race at some point?
Click to expand...

No I have not been on here for many months, I just made my mind up that they were solely targeting the Arc and all other races were just stepping stones, it was clear watching the way she won it last year that she was much better than her form this season was showing. 10/1 was outrageous :blink: I was rubbing my hands in glee:lol:

it should of went for a third straight Arc she would of had a great chance to make history!
 
not with her legs..they done the best thing..i want my lasting memory of her to be winning today and last year..not breaking down on some racecourse next season
 
Last edited:
handsofstone said:
No I have not been on here for many months, I just made my mind up that they were solely targeting the Arc and all other races were just stepping stones, it was clear watching the way she won it last year that she was much better than her form this season was showing. 10/1 was outrageous :blink: I was rubbing my hands in glee:lol:

it should of went for a third straight Arc she would of had a great chance to make history!
Click to expand...

Aftertiming and innuendo in one post impressive .
 
Great to see Treve back to her best.

The sectional times indicate that it was a relatively slowly-run renewal.

3f-line: 34.45 (106% of overall time)
2f-line: 22.64 (107.5%)

I don't know what a par % would be for Longchamp (depends on course dynamics as always), but the times do indicate a fairly slow pace. That backs up my visual impression of the race as well; for all that she was very impressive, Treve was almost ideally placed throughout.

The most plausible explanation for Kawada's ride on Harp Star is that he had a brain lapse and thought he was in fact riding a 66/1 shot in a maiden hurdle in Clonmel. He certainly rode her accordingly...
 
trackside528 said:
Great to see Treve back to her best.

The sectional times indicate that it was a relatively slowly-run renewal.

3f-line: 34.45 (106% of overall time)
2f-line: 22.64 (107.5%)

I don't know what a par % would be for Longchamp (depends on course dynamics as always), but the times do indicate a fairly slow pace. That backs up my visual impression of the race as well; for all that she was very impressive, Treve was almost ideally placed throughout.

The most plausible explanation for Kawada's ride on Harp Star is that he had a brain lapse and thought he was in fact riding a 66/1 shot in a maiden hurdle in Clonmel. He certainly rode her accordingly...
Click to expand...

All three of the Japanese jockeys rode as if they had gone off like scalded cats up front .
 
months and months of listening to speed figure experts, saying TREVE hadnt trained on and was really only rated around the 124 mark because of the WFA allowance, speed figure experts saying it was overrated last year, when any decent judge knew it was an awesome performance and racing fans allover the enjoyed the win. makes you wonder why these people bother putting in all that effort working out how strong the wind was blowing that day on a particular racetrack. only one speed figure expert i know whos proven he knows what hes doing and wins on a regular basis.
 
I think the trainers of the Japanese candidates deserve more vitriol than the jockeys. It's clear they were ridden to orders. How the hell did the knuckeheads think those tactics would work.
 
Euronymous said:
I think the trainers of the Japanese candidates deserve more vitriol than the jockeys. It's clear they were ridden to orders. How the hell did the knuckeheads think those tactics would work.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, the worst bit is with Harp Star as they didn't ride her like that in Sapporo and she still hosed up!

Appreciate I am biased but I'm not convinced she wouldn't have won, she's only been beaten 4.5L and look how far adrift she was turning in:

BzN3xu2CMAEZmUX.jpg


Not to mention the ground lost going that wide on the bend as well. She's done a 33.35 600m sectional and is still motoring at the finish.

They could have used Moore (if booked early) or Peslier. You could argue Kawada has cost now her two very important group ones.
 
ulleyseys46 said:
months and months of listening to speed figure experts, saying TREVE hadnt trained on and was really only rated around the 124 mark because of the WFA allowance, speed figure experts saying it was overrated last year, when any decent judge knew it was an awesome performance and racing fans allover the enjoyed the win. makes you wonder why these people bother putting in all that effort working out how strong the wind was blowing that day on a particular racetrack. only one speed figure expert i know whos proven he knows what hes doing and wins on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
I think what happened yesterday at Longchamp was a Fringe episode , impossible to be explained by normal standars


It was a good training performance by Alec Head to have the mare able to perform in the low 120s level


the form of the race is impossible
sectionals and the positions of the main ones showed it was a slow run race,
the time is slow compared to the abadie or la foret
so a prominent position and inside turn were a must
Harp star ride something out of this world , it is impossible to know what have happened, but with Ryan Moore on her or even Peslier I think they would have finished in the winners enclosure.

the proximity of Aga Khan fillie, Al Kazeen, Siljan Saga and Prince gibraltar make the form very very weak for this standard.


Finally its amazing this mare has won 2 Arcs , when I rate her one of the worst winners in recent years with Bago, Sagamix and Solemmia
 
i find the people who put the ratings on performances for the group 1 races and have been doing for over 25 years for the classics ect, are slightly above average knowledge on these races compared to betting shop punters, fall well below the standard of good judges. this theory is born out form reading their postings over the last year so. kingman/taghrooda/treve/slade power x2
all dismissed early on by so called speed experts. and could name a lot more.
 
ulleyseys46 said:
i find the people who put the ratings on performances for the group 1 races and have been doing for over 25 years for the classics ect, are slightly above average knowledge on these races compared to betting shop punters, fall well below the standard of good judges. this theory is born out form reading their postings over the last year so. kingman/taghrooda/treve/slade power x2
all dismissed early on by so called speed experts. and could name a lot more.
Click to expand...

Aye, you'd have got rich betting Kingman on all his runs wouldn't you?

Any "speed expert" or expert in any discipline in an area of racing for that matter that has any edge whatsoever isn't going to be plastering their theories and selections in the public domain.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Aye, you'd have got rich betting Kingman on all his runs wouldn't you?

Any "speed expert" or expert in any discipline in an area of racing for that matter that has any edge whatsoever isn't going to be plastering their theories and selections in the public domain.
Click to expand...

just a general comment on so called speed experts, they are always forth coming with their theories and selections, and they like to take the higher ground and presume they know more than everyone else. i know of only one person that has proven himself worthy of being called a speed expert. and he posts on here. im sure plenty made money backing KINGMAN.
 
ulleyseys46 said:
just a general comment on so called speed experts, they are always forth coming with their theories and selections, and they like to take the higher ground and presume they know more than everyone else.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is one in the media who fits this description perfectly but there are plenty of people who compile speed ratings that make the game pay and some.

Speed ratings, sectional timings, draw stats, pedigree analysis etc. etc. are all useless if you don't understand probability and know how to bet.
 
sunybay said:
I think what happened yesterday at Longchamp was a Fringe episode , impossible to be explained by normal standars


It was a good training performance by Alec Head to have the mare able to perform in the low 120s level


the form of the race is impossible
sectionals and the positions of the main ones showed it was a slow run race,
the time is slow compared to the abadie or la foret
so a prominent position and inside turn were a must
Harp star ride something out of this world , it is impossible to know what have happened, but with Ryan Moore on her or even Peslier I think they would have finished in the winners enclosure.

the proximity of Aga Khan fillie, Al Kazeen, Siljan Saga and Prince gibraltar make the form very very weak for this standard.


Finally its amazing this mare has won 2 Arcs , when I rate her one of the worst winners in recent years with Bago, Sagamix and Solemmia
Click to expand...

You are joking?

It pretty much goes without saying Taghrooda is a top class filly and would have gone into the Arc unbeaten but for being all wrong at York.

A lot of people myself included thought her 5l defeat of Orfevre looked too good to be true but when she ran Cirrus to a head on his favourite ground that pretty much sealed it that this was an above average winner and a 2nd win was a distinct possibility.

Let's not forget Flintshire is no mug on his day and the fact he has run both Cirrus and Treve to 2 lengths pretty much tells me the form is rock solid.

I think you will find that when you start bringing horses into the equation that have finished 9th to 16th then you're going to come to some false conclusions

The way the race was run allowed a lot of horses to finish closer than they would have in a strong run race.........Run it again with couple of classy front runners and the bet is they'd be beaten out of sight but the first 3 would be unlikely to change.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top