The Well Worn Road To The Champion Hurdle (2016)

No mate lets look at it properly. The only race you can be sure that everything is at their best and trying their damn hardest is the Champion Hurdle.


How about Faugheen won the Champion Hurdle by 1 1/2 length from a 157 rated horse Arctic Fire

Whereas Istabraq beat a 162 rated horse in Theatreworld 12 lengths

Did it ever occur to you that AF is not at his best? afterall he was just coming off the back of a thrashing by some moderate horses.
 
Tanlic said:
No mate lets look at it properly. The only race you can be sure that everything is at their best and trying their damn hardest is the Champion Hurdle.


How about Faugheen won the Champion Hurdle by 1 1/2 length from a 157 rated horse Arctic Fire

Whereas Istabraq beat a 162 rated horse in Theatreworld 12 lengths

Did it ever occur to you that AF is not at his best? afterall he was just coming off the back of a thrashing by some moderate horses.
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no..the 162 was after theatreworld was beaten..not before the CH

look at properly..you kiddin me right?:)

yes..the thought had crossed my mind that AF wasn't at best...strangely that was the first thing that came to mind...it strikes you after a few years making figures..normally first thing:)...but after an hour doing the meetings figures..sectionals etc..i saw in black and white..that AF has run to within 3lbs of best. The times are solid..you can't run times like that when you aren't any good or have run lbs below form.

So..in my mind i know the figures are rock solid..i spent time on it..whereas you watched the race..came on here and said sh1t race without any analysis whatsoever

thats without doubt one of the best hurdling performances this century...imo
 
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Tanlic said:
No mate lets look at it properly. The only race you can be sure that everything is at their best and trying their damn hardest is the Champion Hurdle.


How about Faugheen won the Champion Hurdle by 1 1/2 length from a 157 rated horse Arctic Fire

Whereas Istabraq beat a 162 rated horse in Theatreworld 12 lengths

Did it ever occur to you that AF is not at his best? afterall he was just coming off the back of a thrashing by some moderate horses.
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But 157-rated Arctic Fire beat a 170-rated horse by five lengths into third place in that same race, and the previous year's winner by a further 1.5 lengths. It doesn't always add up.
 
Tanlic, Theatreworld was UK-rated 162 coming out of the 1998 Champion Hurdle - not going into it - and didn't win another race over hurdles in 13 attempts thereafter. Indeed, we he was beaten in a handicap at Punchestown 6 weeks later off an Irish mark of just 148.

EC1...stop getting to the point before me - it's becoming very annoying! :lol:
 
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:)

its only a few weeks ago we were saying how hurdlers were apparently crap...a performance like this comes along..and they still crap..there is no wonder.. if a performance like that is dismissed

like i said..if P&C had won like that it would be opposite..if Istabraq had replaced Faugheen yesterday it would be..best since Night Nurse etc

i'll wager that when Isty was winning..someone on a messageboard was pooh poohing him..oh he's not as good as Night Nurse..Persian War.

i really don't know what a hurdler has to do these days..the fact they are all rated 7lb less than they should be compared with chasers adds to that opinion.

poor old hurdlers
 
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EC1 said:
no..the 162 was after theatreworld was beaten..not before the CH

look at properly..you kiddin me right?:)

yes..the thought had crossed my mind that AF wasn't at best...strangely that was the first thing that came to mind...it strikes you after a few years making figures..normally first thing:)...but after an hour doing the meetings figures..sectionals etc..i saw in black and white..that AF has run to within 3lbs of best. The times are solid..you can't run times like that when you aren't any good or have run lbs below form.

So..in my mind i know the figures are rock solid..i spent time on it..whereas you watched the race..came on here and said sh1t race without any analysis whatsoever

thats without doubt one of the best hurdling performances this century...imo
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Best this century??? enough said :blink:
 
BTW, judging by the nick of Hurricane Fly in the paddock, I reckon he would have finished a clear second yesterday, if they'd been minded to throw a saddle over him.
 
What gets me is he was a 1/3 shot to win the race and you EC are making out like the opposition was so special.

Arctic Fire is damn ordinary at times and this was one of them and NC is just out of his nappies...If he had just beaten Sea Pigeon by 15 lengths I could understand you saying the performance of the century

I really think you should put that bong away for a while. :)
 
Tanlic said:
Best this century??? enough said :blink:
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i don't see why thats so bad..on paper its actually better than any rating from another horse that Isty ever put up...but i know you don't go on ratings..even though you only just posted ratings proof up to back up how good last years Triumph hurdle was

what you don't seem to be taking in..the Triumph hurdle is one of the worst trials for the CH..ever

they are running over a stayers trip for horses of their age in the triumph..2m1f on new course is a lnger run in than CH course

the only way a triumph hurdler is good enough for a CH..is when he is exceptional..or the CH is poor

you are also ignoring the fact that P&C..unlike Our Conor..has had bugger all hurdling experience since the TH..OC had a number of races before the CH and he improved each time

P&C has basically a 4yo hurdler's experience..thrown in against hardened hurdlers when he lines up on CH day..he won'tr know whats hit him unless Nicky pulls his finger out
 
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It sounds like a bold statement but I'm struggling to think of a better one.

Rooster Booster's Champion Hurdle would probably get my vote though with Faugheen yesterday 2nd and Istabraaq (2000 - as the other two were last century) in 3rd.

The Fly, great as he was, never put in one individual performance IMHO that stood out quite like that.
 
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Tanlic said:
What gets me is he was a 1/3 shot to win the race and you EC are making out like the opposition was so special.

Arctic Fire is damn ordinary at times and this was one of them and NC is just out of his nappies...If he had just beaten Sea Pigeon by 15 lengths I could understand you saying the performance of the century

I really think you should put that bong away for a while. :)
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no no no..please don't put words in my mouth..its a sure sign you are grasping at straws..i have never said AF is special..he did finish 2nd in a CH though..which means he ain't no yoke..you know that race where you say you have to be 110% and they are all trying

name me a better hurdling performance this century
 
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wilsonl said:
It sounds like a bold statement but I'm struggling to think of a better one.

Rooster Booster's Champion Hurdle would probably get my vote though with Faugheen yesterday 2nd and Istabraaq (2000 - as the other two were last century) in 3rd.
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I don't value the Rooster Booster performance as high as the winning distances on the day suggest..the race fell apart pacewise..that wasn't the case yesterday

the following year showed you how good Rooster Booster was..when the pace wasn't as kind to him
 
wilsonl said:
It sounds like a bold statement but I'm struggling to think of a better one.

Rooster Booster's Champion Hurdle would probably get my vote though with Faugheen yesterday 2nd and Istabraaq (2000 - as the other two were last century) in 3rd.

The Fly, great as he was, never put in one individual performance IMHO that stood out quite like that.
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Not in the British Champion Hurdle, I would agree........you have to look elsewhere for his best performances
 
I'm not suggesting Rooster is better than Faugheen - and yes we know he needed things to go his way - but for a one-off performance, the way Dickie had to take a pull at the bottom of the hill and then when he asked him to go...

Awesome display.
 
lets play the rating game with Rooster Boosters win then..even though it was complimentary imo..i'll not quibble re the pace..lets just go on ratings of oppo

RB beat a 157 horse 11 lengths

that equals 168

thats ..on paper..a stone behind yesterdays race

we are talking ratings given after the CH ..not before

and if ratings are suggested as being pointless..why do we bother with them?
 
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Second season novices are invariably rated lower during the early days of the season (look at Nichols Canyon) and Westender - who'd just been touched off in the previous year's Supreme went on to prove himself a solid 160 horse.
 
EC1 said:
I don't value the Rooster Booster performance as high as the winning distances on the day suggest..the race fell apart pacewise..that wasn't the case yesterday

the following year showed you how good Rooster Booster was..when the pace wasn't as kind to him
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I know you've pitched this line before EC1, but I can't have it that a) the Booster's CH was poor, b) he needed it to fall apart pace-wise to win, and c) that the following year showed his level.

RB had shown mild temperament tendencies on occasion earlier in his career, and if anything could have gotten near him in 2003, then they may (may) have been worried out of it. But the simple fact is that nothing could get near him, and even proven class stayers like Rhinestone Cowboy - who should have had the race run equally to suit - couldn't put a glove on him.
 
Surely, even if you accept Westender as a solid 160 and give the Rooster full value for his winning margin, it still only comes in in the low 170s.
 
Apologies if I have missed it, but has Faugheen been given a new OR already, after yesterday's race?......or is the 174 mentioned earlier, his input rating into yesterday's race?
 
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Kauto Abu said:
The fact none of the 1st 3 home in the Triumph have not won since, despite have 8 different racecourse outings between them, tells you all you need to know about last years Triumph Hurdle. A poor batch of juveniles.
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Is it possible the race took so much out of them they're taking longer than normal to get back to form?
 
archie said:
Surely, even if you accept Westender as a solid 160 and give the Rooster full value for his winning margin, it still only comes in in the low 170s.
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I had RB on 173 for his Champion Hurdle, I think (from memory)......some way short of Istabraq's level, but better than most every other CH since Istabraq's.
 
Not everything in this game is rating based though Archie.

Yes they facilitate a number of important aspects of the sport but a) they are not an exact science and b) many times horses would be capable of differing performances under different circumstances.

To the eye Rooster Booster was imperious.
 
or that they need doing what most TH horses do..put over further than 2 miles DO.


the new OHR of 176 for faugheen is as usual conservative..but his OHR for Isty was also 176

so the official handicapper says that Isty is the same level as Faugheen
 
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