Totesport Bowl -Aintree

Headstrong said:
Hamm he was ridden from so far back becuase he wasn;t interested or comfortable until aobut 2/3 of the wya through the race. I think you are seeing what you want to see, in Denman, not what was actually happening

In hindsight I expect we all wish he'd been put away til next year as this will leave a scar. The horse looked very badly shaken indeed after that
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HS,

With respect, please, and you of all people, don't tell me what I am wanting to see.

I have my opinion, and I have expressed that. You are free to disagree with it. I have already said he didn't look great or run very well, but he was battling as well as ever, and, IMO, would have probably won, an opinion I feel stronger about with how Madison de Berlais finished off his own race.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Anymore? He's a bit like Youmzain, he's been running the same race for years!

RUK say Denman is ok bar a slight overreach.
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Personally wouldn't be calling Youmzain a dog or ungenuine or so on, he ain't been helped by a catalogue of idiots riding him.

Tony Culhane kicked on, on him at Catterick a few years ago and pissed up on him, I await to see Culhane on him at Epsom, then finally the real Youmzain will prove what he is like when he is given a ride.
 
Hamm said:
HS,

With respect, please, and you of all people, don't tell me what I am wanting to see.

I have my opinion, and I have expressed that. You are free to disagree with it. I have already said he didn't look great or run very well, but he was battling as well as ever, and, IMO, would have probably won, an opinion I feel stronger about with how Madison de Berlais finished off his own race.
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Thats fair enough, I think the Pipe horse would win but I certainly wouldn't be staking my life on it.

Looks like the Gold Cup left a mark on a few of these. Exotic Dancer cannot have run to form after that round of jumping.
 
Flame said:
Personally wouldn't be calling Youmzain a dog or ungenuine or so on, he ain't been helped by a catalogue of idiots riding him.

Tony Culhane kicked on, on him at Catterick a few years ago and pissed up on him, I await to see Culhane on him at Epsom, then finally the real Youmzain will prove what he is like when he is given a ride.
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Any possibility Hills will be jocked off?

Apologies for subject change.
 
Flame I backed Denman and at no point did I ever think my money was safe. Yes he was upsides but the effort was really telling imo, and I never felt confident he coudl stay there. And I really don't think you can blame that fall on Sam T - the horse just didn't get high enough! Looked a tired fall - and a 'stressed' one, to me

PS and I'm still very mindful of the photo I took of Denman coming in at Cheltenham, lookign all done in
 
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Personally wouldn't be calling Youmzain a dog or ungenuine or so on, he ain't been helped by a catalogue of idiots riding him.
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I didn't call him ungenuine or a dog (I don't think either are either!).

My point is that, like Youmzain, there was nothing today (or on Saturday, in Youmzain's case) that hadn't happened multiple times before to them and would lead you to suddenly change your opinion about them. This is who they are and have been for a long time!
 
The BBC seemed to think the overreach cut was quite bad, no doubt we shall be told later. I guess tha answer to that is whether he has damaged his tendon in his foreleg
 
I felt denman was really trying hard to answer everything being asked of him but i still think there is something wrong with him physically he is simply not the horse he was before his heart problem
 
RUK showed Sam Thomas getting quite serious with Denman before they even lined up at the start. There just didn't seem to be any enthusiasm there today.

I hope he's okay. I feel as bad as I did watching this race last season.
 
Watching the race again, I'm less certain than previously that Denman's fall can be put down to fatigue. He had looked laboured from a relatively early stage (and laziness is not a trait for which he has previously espoused) but he certainly wasn't looking out on his feet by any means at the time of his fall.

Worth noting that he wasn't particularly fluent at the previous two fences either (admittedly without ever looking like falling). Looked to just take off as Madison de Berlais did likewise a half-stride or so in front and never had any chance of getting to the other side; can't see any reason to blame Thomas.
 
He didn't want to be there ! Hope he is OK - and Exotic Dancer what a horse he might have been if he didn't make so many blasted mistakes !

Great effort by the winner though and he had Denman cooked
 
Yes and it's worth remembering Madison has had as many hard races as any horse at top level this seaosn. A great effort from a much improved horse.

Agree with you Miss Nero - I felt sick as a dog watching the race and I usually only feel that way if Kauto looks like getting beat! My heart was pounding so loud I could heart it LOL - and it wasn't the money, I desperately wanted Denman to win. Such a pity as he had been going the right way, but this was perhaps another hard race too soon; and it's bound to put him back. Well, he has a summer off now anyway.
 
Ardross,

I suggest you watch the replay. The winner was all out, as was Denman, both from some way out. Denman, coming from behind MdeB, was ahead when he fell. If one horse was cooked, it was MdeB, which can be seen by him slowing drastically on the run in.

It's irrelevant whether Denman wanted to be there or not.
 
Whether he comes back or not depends entirely on whatever injury he picked up - and how it's treated...

Still don't agree with either Hamm or Flame's analysis - DENMAN has always been a horse who jumps and I reckon his misjudgement was down to not having the same reserves in his tank that he did last year. The winner had the race and rack that obviously suits him down to the ground and imo would have won even had DENMAN stood up.

They don't have to be 'out on their feet' to make mistakes - if his adrenaline wasn't kicking in as it should at that end of the race below par performance will be found out.
 
Headstrong said:
Agree with you Miss Nero - I felt sick as a dog watching the race and I usually only feel that way if Kauto looks like getting beat! My heart was pounding so loud I could heart it LOL - and it wasn't the money, I desperately wanted Denman to win. Such a pity as he had been going the right way, but this was perhaps another hard race too soon; and it's bound to put him back. Well, he has a summer off now anyway.
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It was a performance similar to Kauto Star's in the same race last year. It's always easy to say in hindsight but I've never liked to see horses which ran in the Gold Cup line up at Aintree, particularly those involved in the business end of the race.

Kauto Star was a very tired horse at Aintree last season and Denman had been through enough to get him to Cheltenham in the first place, and that should have been the end of his season thereafter.

It says much for both of them that they ran the races they did. Kauto Star just pipped on the line after trying to take that second last fence home with him, and Denman still there when falling.

Horses are there to race, I know, but I think they deserve more of a break after a race like the Gold Cup.
 
Yes, and I do feel something now. RIP Exotic Dancer and what a brave run that must have been given these weaknesses don't come totally out of the blue. RIP ED - and thank you for keeping me in PP
 
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