VVO - I love KINKEEL to bits, but I think yesterday he got pissed-off with his jockey whacking him after he'd slightly tipped a fence. Shortly after that indignity upon his rump, he tweaked an ear as if to say, "I've been at this game long enough and don't need that, sonny", and clearly formed his Master Plan to humiliate the pilot well within grandstand view. I shall congratulate him via Tony Carroll next time I see him, and ask for a fiver on your behalf!
Unedifying sight ?
- Thread starter Songsheet
- Start date
Good post Krizon (one before last) Agree with that
Racing does need to distance itself from the seemingly unneccessarily cruel (and I am getting more squeamish abou the national each year myself), simply because the bulk of the population wont wear it. And thats what matters rather than the opinions of "insiders" or fox slaughtering inbreds. And on that note, a bit more distance from The Cuntryside alliance would be welcome too.
Racing does need to distance itself from the seemingly unneccessarily cruel (and I am getting more squeamish abou the national each year myself), simply because the bulk of the population wont wear it. And thats what matters rather than the opinions of "insiders" or fox slaughtering inbreds. And on that note, a bit more distance from The Cuntryside alliance would be welcome too.
I would agree with this, although it conflicts with the rule about riding horses to achieve the best possible position. The rider of course needs to make a judgement.
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
I can see where you're coming from but can't see that it does conflict with the rule about riding horses to achieve the best possible position - 'dead, collapsed after last fence' isn't the greatest position ever!
BennyB
Senior Jockey
Unnecessary, and more than a tad bigoted. Being pro-hunting doesn’t mean being anti-animal welfare.
Isinglass
At the Start
Seems it did not happen but was being talked about on course. We had some friends who had a horse in the race (pulled up) and the buzz from the jockeys,owners, trainers lads etc after the race was that there may well be bans, especially for the horse who stopped and then carried on and came 3rd.
I think it was a panic on part of stewards & course as not sure which way to go to save face. Very controversial for sure which is probably why they left it.
On The Bridle
At the Start
I personally think there has been a huge over-reaction to this - many marathon runners "pull up" due to fatigue and many collapse over the line etc... but no furore about it. These horses are trained for this - that is the reason there are so well looked after and cared for. I think as racing and horse people we need to stand up for our sport and not concede any ground to the fringes in which a lot of the "looney animal rights activists" reside.
Marathon runners are people who take an informed choice, OTB. Who cares if they drive themselves to collapse? It's their decision, made wittingly (one assumes they're not all mad) and for their own gratification.
There is no comparison between human athletes and animal contenders, because we possess a brain which is vastly superior to theirs (well, in most cases) and because we have a duty of care to any animals we decide to use.
Horses are trained for a variety of uses, chasing being one of many, yes. Horses are trained for our pleasure and, more often than not, profit and status. But they are not supposed to gratify us through being pushed to the limits you think are acceptable, apparently.
By your logic, it would be perfectly acceptable to see greyhounds and racehorses, showjumpers, and endurance horses collapsing, just because humans do. I can't imagine where that logic would take us in that case.
There is no comparison between human athletes and animal contenders, because we possess a brain which is vastly superior to theirs (well, in most cases) and because we have a duty of care to any animals we decide to use.
Horses are trained for a variety of uses, chasing being one of many, yes. Horses are trained for our pleasure and, more often than not, profit and status. But they are not supposed to gratify us through being pushed to the limits you think are acceptable, apparently.
By your logic, it would be perfectly acceptable to see greyhounds and racehorses, showjumpers, and endurance horses collapsing, just because humans do. I can't imagine where that logic would take us in that case.
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Well, I'm no 'looney animal rights activist' - I breed beef cattle for human consumption, so I reckon I'm as 'hard' as it probably gets on this forum as far as that goes but I genuinely found the Eider distateful and unnecessary and not how I envisage any racehorse I breed being used. No, I'll correct that - I would go so far as to say abused in that particular race. There are non-sentimental, sensible animal welfare standards and then there are OTT tree hugger standards but being critical of the Eider does not, in my opinion, fall into the latter category.
If those horses had been properly trained for that race and those conditions, they wouldn't have finished so damned exhausted. What they were trained for was a four mile chase on reasonable ground - soft would have been fine - but the ground they ended up on was horrendous and so we ended up watching two horses barely able to stand up cross the winning line. Oh - and a third, which was so far back it was pulled up and restarted, no ?
Great stuff...
Colin Phillips
At the Start
I agree completely, Songsheet.
On The Bridle
At the Start
Still stand by my opinion - probably digging myself deeper - firstly I absolutely accept there are no "looney left animal rights activists" posting here - all horses were perfectly fine after the race - tired perhaps but fine- if we, as horse racing enthusiasts now are opposed to running certain races because the ground is too soft and the distance too far then where does it stop?? They went a too quickly early on in rhe Eider on that ground and only three finished none of the participants injured. There are greater animal welfare issues out there without drawing unnecessary attention to this.
Do we want to end up with flat only racing on good ground, on a level straight track, with a following wind, on a straight track and only when the sun is shunning because if we start here that's where we are heading!
Do we want to end up with flat only racing on good ground, on a level straight track, with a following wind, on a straight track and only when the sun is shunning because if we start here that's where we are heading!
In Ireland heavy ground occurs a lot more frequently, which might explain why we have only one or two events, and minor ones at that, over extreme distances.
Perhaps clerks of the course need to apply a different standard concerning marathon events when deciding whether conditions are raceable or not.
Perhaps clerks of the course need to apply a different standard concerning marathon events when deciding whether conditions are raceable or not.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
"only when the sun is shunning "
No. Low sun = removing fences and hurdles.
No. Low sun = removing fences and hurdles.
Simon
At the Start
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- Dec 17, 2007
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- 1,314
Red Marauder won it in Heavy ground.
Indeed , didn't the winner of one of those long distance chases drop dead of exhaustion this season or last - somewhere with a stiff uphill finish ?
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
I think that it was at last season's Ulster National ( 3m 4f ) at Downpatrick.
I'd be a wee bit wary of saying horses drop dead of exhaustion, when they died because they had heart attacks brought on by exertion. The wonderful DR LEUNT died of a heart attack on the way back in from his final race, but no-one would say he died of exhaustion. If the vet describes the COD as "exhaustion" then that's acceptable (as it were), but if it's a heart attack due to exertion, then the heart was presumably going to go at some stage, the race just being that tipping point. It wouldn't necessarily indicate that the jockey had ridden it to death.
As Simnon says, RED MARAUDER's National was run in heavy ground but it was, if my memory serves me right, heavy wet ground - not heavy tacky ground as looked to be the case on Saturday. And RM didn't literally climb over the last two fences, although he was extremely tired.
Quite surprised at your comment, Flame, to be honest, bearing in mind you're actively promoting a racing partnership. However, if it's based on gambling, I suppose there's no difference in outlook between gambling with money on horses or 'just' horses, is there ?
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Indeed, God forbid the National being run on the sort of ground the Eider presented - I think you could kiss it goodbye, if only two managed out of 30 starters to stagger over the last like that. People want to see spectacles, all right, but not mortal combat. Keep that for video games, not live animals.
On The Bridle
At the Start
Mind you it would be better than running it on fast going when the majority of injuries and fatalities occur. The Times made the point that fatlities occur when the going is fast and as exhausted as many were in the Eider none were actually injured (one may have been though).
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