What are the Police for? This is a horrible story....

[Harbinger]

you use the very same straw man arguments yourself though Gareth..anytime anyone demonstrates a more extreme view than yourself you take it to the extreme

You want to 'exterminate' people who you consider to be 'sub-human' 'scum'. Your words. You don't need any help from me to come across as an extremist.

my reaction to Clive's view was tongue in cheek

Tongue in cheek? About hanging kids from lamp posts? That's pretty sick.

you don't seem to have any solutions to anything..bar cuddling the human rights nonsense thats basically a criminals charter

You sit back with your easy going attitude to criminals and you will just see a growth in vile crime..which is where we have been heading for a long time

you don't have any moral high ground by allowing people do just what the hell they want..and then let them get away with it

You're either seeing things or projecting, because I haven't expressed any opinion on criminals in this thread, other than an opposition to murdering them.

 

[clivex]

"sick" is bullying vulnerable people to the point where they take their own lives. Many would not consider it sick to at the very least destroy the lives of the scum that did so. Many would not consider it to be a tragedy if someone did hang the youths involved from a lampost. ....... directly outside the parents bedroom window so that when they draw back the curtains first thing in the morning....

I am not in favour of capital punishment for a variety of reasons but it would not trouble me in the least to see bthese peoples lives completely ruined

 

[Harbinger]

Many would not consider it to be a tragedy if someone did hang the youths involved from a lampost. ....... directly outside the parents bedroom window so that when they draw back the curtains first thing in the morning....

So what is it with the detailed retribution fantasies? Do you find yourself thinking about these things often?

 

[EC1]

Tongue in cheek? About hanging kids from lamp posts? That's pretty sick.

I didn't post it Gareth..but that doesn't matter does it?..because it suits to blame me for it...sorry for not being really shocked by it anyway..I'll try harder to feel sorry for these people

they are kids are they?...well its alright to let them do what they want then eh?

unreal

 

[Harbinger]

I didn't post it Gareth..but that doesn't matter does it?

You stated your favourable opinion for it, 'cool' smiley and all. And then your tried to defend yourself by claiming it was just 'tongue-in-cheek', as if there's anything about this case to be tongue-in-cheek about.

Now, unlike what you're continually trying to do to me, I'm not putting words in your mouth. It's all there, by your name, clear to see for anyone who wants to read it.

they are kids are they?

Some as young as ten. You have actually read the article, haven't you?

...well its alright to let them do what they want then eh?

unreal

There you go again. Because I don't want to see 10 year olds hanging from lampposts, I must think it's ok to let them do what they want.

 

[EC1]

You stated your favourable opinion for it, 'cool' smiley and all. And then your tried to defend yourself by claiming it was just 'tongue-in-cheek', as if there's anything about this case to be tongue-in-cheek about.

Now, unlike what you're continually trying to do to me, I'm not putting words in your mouth. It's all there, by your name, clear to see for anyone who wants to read it.



Some as young as ten. You have actually read the article, haven't you?



There you go again. Because I don't want to see 10 year olds hanging from lampposts, I must think it's ok to let them do what they want.

10 year olds are in gangs these days Gareth..dealing crack ..carrying weapons..stabbing other people etc

you seem to have a rose tinted view of life..or you lead a sheltered life...its no longer the 50's I'm afraid..its not "Just William" out there now

 

[Euronymous]

This chat form gets too heavy at times. We should be discussing Strictly.. and the new series of Peep Show.

 

[Harbinger]

10 year olds are in gangs these days Gareth..dealing crack ..carrying weapons..stabbing other people etc

And unlike you, I still don't want to see them hanging from lamp posts.

you seem to have a rose tinted view of life

Compared to someone who's view of life has led them to continually state their support for seeing children hung from lamp posts and having their eyes pecked out by crows, thats not really saying much, is it?

 

[EC1]

I agree Euronymous

I would hazard a guess that Gareth is a fair bit younger than me..Im very sorry..but I have had my fill of people getting away with vile crimes for so long now I have no sympathy with wrongdoers whatsover..or yobs in general..and I see/hear plenty of it just going to and coming from work

just one snapshot from the other week

I was walking through my high street and there were 3 of these little angels about 10/11 years old..one of them took something off another one..his mate bear in mind..so the one who he had took it of..says..ere give it me back or I will call someone to come and shoot you

it wasn't said in some childish way..it was like he was some gang member..they all had mobile phones ..it was meant

this isn't any sort of child mentality I was brought up to recognise..its bloody scarey hearing kids that age with this type of mentality

do I live in a different world to you guys..don't any of of you come across this sort of thing?

 

[EC1]

And unlike you, I still don't want to see them hanging from lamp posts.



Compared to someone who's view of life has led them to continually state their support for seeing children hung from lamp posts and having their eyes pecked out by crows, thats not really saying much, is it?

I would read back Gareth..think you will find it was Clive that posted it..you don't seem to bothered about that

but..I will admit..I don't give a fig about some of the urchins that roam round..no not a jot..they aren't children as I know it

like I said..you must live in some kind of cuddly cuddly world

 

[Harbinger]

although I do like Clive's punishment better in this instance

like I said..you must live in some kind of cuddly cuddly world

"cuddly cuddly" now apparently means not wanting to hang children from lamp posts and having crows peck their eyes out.

 

[EC1]

you are a bore at times Gareth

I don't give a fook what you think about me or my views tbh..even when I don't even pass them...you don't seem to have many yourself bar from being a oh so superior criticiser mind you

I hold my views through what I experience in the main..I don't read newspapers or watch the news that much these days unless something like this gets highlighted

if you think that kiddly widdly's of 10yo are all angels and that killing people is wrong..thats up to you

but just remember that if others were all like you we would have lost the second world war..where you either killed or lost your country..I assume you would allow your country to be taken over rather than defend it?

but thats another topic..but linked to this one

I assume you would have been a concientious objector in wartime?

 

[Grasshopper]

C'mon EC.......exactly how far do you think you can argue the case that "All people opposed to capital punishment would not fight in a war"? That kind of linkage is preposterous.

I have some sympathy with your (and Clivex's) view that there are far too many little shitehouses getting away with (metaphorical) murder, but bringing the death penalty back is not going to solve the problem, for the simple reason that crimes similar to those reported would never result in a capital conviction.

There are too many parents who simply don't give a fuck what their kids are up to. If we are unable to charge minors for the kind of activities reported in Clivex's link, then we should be able to charge the parents instead.

A few convictions might prove sufficient motivation for other parents to bring their own urchins into line.

 

[Harbinger]

I don't give a fook what you think about me or my views tbh

Thankfully, that doesn't preclude me from confronting your views anyway.

..even when I don't even pass them...

Except, of course, that you did:

although I do like Clive's punishment better in this instance

if you think that kiddly widdly's of 10yo are all angels

Once more: there's a difference between not wanting to hang children from lamp posts and them having their eyes pecked out by crows, and thinking that all children are innocent angels who should never be punished in any way for their actions. You appear unable to grasp this not-too-subtle distinction.

but just remember that if others were all like you we would have lost the second world war

Priceless.

 

[Desert Orchid]

There are too many parents who simply don't give a fuck what their kids are up to. If we are unable to charge minors for the kind of activities reported in Clivex's link, then we should be able to charge the parents instead.

A few convictions might prove sufficient motivation for other parents to bring their own urchins into line.

I remember writing an essay about teenage hooligans. It would have been c1969 and I was sent round all the English classes to read it aloud, so good did my teacher think it was. Basically it said the same as Grasshopper. It's largely the parents to blame for not supervising their kids or taking a close enough interest in them so a few charges levelled at the parents might help get things started.

A number of years ago I gave a kid a row for saying 'fuck' in class. Naively, I asked, "Do you use language like that at home?" "Aye, an' so diz ma maw'n'da," was the reply. I felt like giving up there and then.

 

[clivex]

For one thing, they certainly werent all 10 year olds.. Far from it

Yes. I think of the victims. So what if i quite like the idea of the perputrators getting a nasty little suprise?

I agree with Grasshopper. Shoudl really target the parents (after theyve cut the corpses down from the lamposts) and in this case, as I said before, the police

This sort of stuff has happened time and time again and ive yet to hear a solution from the Guardian reading class...othe rthan take them on holiday or something

Scum like this needs to FEAR the retribution for their behaviour

And where were the welfare officers again? This poor woman was looking after two disabled kids with enormous problems and under extreme pressure. The services must have been aware

Yet again the idle stupid public "services"..... FAIL

 

[Tout Seul]

Imagine what the offspring of the "kids" will be like.

 

[EC1]

Thankfully, that doesn't preclude me from confronting your views anyway.



Except, of course, that you did:





Once more: there's a difference between not wanting to hang children from lamp posts and them having their eyes pecked out by crows, and thinking that all children are innocent angels who should never be punished in any way for their actions. You appear unable to grasp this not-too-subtle distinction.



Priceless.

no its not priceless..again you think you are being smart..when the reverse is true.........you said you don't agree with taking human life..which is a little different from not agreeing with capital punishment.....thats what we are now talking about now..so you wouldn't fight to defend your freedom is what you are saying with that statement quite clearly

your problem Gareth is..that trying to make yourself look smart at the expense of others........leaves you open to plenty of stuff you are happy to aim at your "targets"..of which I am one on this forum

I see you haven't responded to Clive .. backing up his lampost statement..oh of course you can't aim that at me

you are one of the most patronising people on here sometimes..but you have nothing to back up your supposed superiority with..not with me anyway

 

[Harbinger]

no its not priceless..again you think you are being smart..when the reverse is true.........you said you don't agree with taking human life

No, I didn't. Once again you're trying to put words in my mouth.

(I'll ignore the tedious personal attacks that you always end up falling back on when I dare to disagree with you).

 

[montyracing2]

I'll just make an input here having had questionable 'police' input in the past following a burglary.

In Preston on that weekend there were 8 police officers on duty, and six of these were on 'Pub' duty in the town centre - that left two to protect the 50,000 people in the suburbs.

The numbers may be inaccurate but, as horrible as this case is, it comes down to cost.

Stopping speeding motarists brings in money, sorting out juvenile crime costs.

MR2

 

[EC1]

talking of tedious personal attacks

your own vicious bloodlust bubbles to the top

Now go back to fantasising about 'sub-human' kids hanging from lamp posts having their eyes picked out by crows

you are the one that starts making it personal Gareth ..above are two examples

again..the second one..you seem to struggle with the fact that Clive posted that..but continue insisting its my words and fantasy :blink:

the only person who constantly starts making things personal between us is yourself...you seem to want to be my personal policeman on here..watching my every word..being pedantic.

you then try and turn it round to hide it

if you have a problem with me then pack the games in and spit it out..like a man..not hiding behind snidey asides

my views on this thread are moderate compared to some of the stuff I have read on here..but its only me that seems to get the limpit hanging on..as demonstrated here..Clive makes a statement..all of a sudden you are on my back..not his

its the 2nd time this week I've had you hounding my every word on a thread..its not just disagreeing you do..its a patronising oneupmanship game you are playing

I personally do not give a fig if you are agaisnt capital punishment or not..your whole demeanor though towards me is that when you have an opposite view..which is more often than not..we have the same performance

you can't just disagree..it has to be peppered with belittling asides and a superior attitude..you can't be wrong can you?....its funny..I always get accused of that..but not one person ever accuses you of it..but you display it in most discussions you have...you try and batter your view in.

as far as I'm concerned..I have my view..you have your view on this...thats all it is ...a view.

i won't change my mind..you won't change yours

 

[EC1]

I'll just make an input here having had questionable 'police' input in the past following a burglary.

In Preston on that weekend there were 8 police officers on duty, and six of these were on 'Pub' duty in the town centre - that left two to protect the 50,000 people in the suburbs.

The numbers may be inaccurate but, as horrible as this case is, it comes down to cost.

Stopping speeding motarists brings in money, sorting out juvenile crime costs.

MR2

thats a good point

I remember when the miners strike was on...there were hundreds of policeman on duty just in my village alone....and in many other villages..wonder where they all are now

its also interesting that they brought a law in then....that no more than 6 people could be on a picket line..otherwise it were unlawful assembly and you would be arrested..and yet there are "unlawful assemblies" occuring in every town now with groups of yobs...and yet the police claim there is no law being broken and let it carry on


basically law and order is only important in certain circumstances...and defending someones right to live a peaceful life isn't one of those circumstances

law abiding people are not important anymore..particularly if old or sick people...criminals rights are way higher up the list of priorities..no hospital waiting lists for them...no..oooh have you paid your NI stamp up to date

there is something fundamentally wrong with a lot of this imo

 

[Harbinger]

EC1, you're fervently pro-capital punishment, and you talk about 'sub-human' 'vermin' 'scum' who should be 'exterminated.' You specifically agreed with clivex's notion that the perpetrators of the harassment in this case should be hung from lamp posts and have their eyes pecked out by crows, going on to confirm that their age is irrelevant to you, and assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must be at the complete opposite end of the spectrum: 'soft', 'molly-coddling', and on the side of criminals.

These are your views. I find them abhorrent, and I'm not going to shy away from telling you so. Why should I? I couldn't care less if you feel like I'm badgering you or if it feeds your paranoia; your extremist rhetoric deserves to be stood up to and challenged.

 

[krizon]

The thing is this: nobody for a moment believes it's acceptable that anyone should suffer as this poor woman and her daughter did. I'm sure everyone thinks that she's been poorly served by the police, presumably also by Social Services/her Council, etc. She may not have had the will or energy left from caring for a very dependent child to go to her local MP - and she knew there'd be more reprisals if she did. Like many animals, some human communities attack the most vulnerable and weakest members, ostracising them for their difference to the majority. These attackers tend to be ill-educated and frequently from a history of brutal backgrounds. What's got to be addressed is WHY we have these people in our society, and WHAT will be done to remedy their social situation, so that their numbers are reduced? By that, I mean getting tough on shite parents who breed dangerously-uncontrolled children. Take their kids into care early on, stop their allowances, etc., force the adults into learning programmes, shove them into rehab and get them off the drink and drugs so many of them are on, thus polluting their own children's lives and thus their communities.

Hanging children from lamp posts is a revolting idea, and would merely encourage the retributive lynch mob mentality of the type of semi-human involved in the EDL. If you want a return to medieval barbarism, then that's the low level of brutishness you'll get - just don't expect to be treated with justice and fairness if you transgress the type of person who'd like to see children dangling dead.

What needs to be sorted out is why, in the 21st Century, Britain still suffers from brutish anti-social activity. The streets are cleaner, there's indoor plumbing and electricity, but it seems that there's still a Hogarthian atmosphere in some communities, and one has to ask why this happens, and how to correct it. Putting back the clocks to savagery would not be the answer.

 

[clivex]

EC1

Spot on. I have little time for the police banging on about resources (you seen the holiday leave they get?). This will be the excuse in this case, but the truth is that they couldnt be bothered and (a guess here) that ala the Stephen Lawrence case, they were too familiar with some of the troublemakers families

They will find plenty of rescources to chase down drivers going 5 mph over 70 miles per hour on an empty stretch of road though wont they?