What Will They Come Up With? (BHA Consultants report)

Warbler said:
Most racecourses have got some lousy old under-used rooms or out buildings that could be converted into a minor museum with a lottery grant (mind you, they'd have to review their equal opportunities practices to apply for one).
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:lol:
 
Seriously though, Warbler makes some good points about sport and entertainment which is why Newmarket Nights is so successful. You can knock it all you like but it's always packed and that goes for the racing too (stands and lawns always full), there's a great atmosphere and they tie the racing in with another form of entertainment... live music.

Ventures like that are more likely to get the ball rolling than anything else. Was Lisa Hancock involved with this piece for the BHA? She did a bloody fantastic job at Newmarket.
 
I tend to be of the opinion that a 'spotlight' type comment is more influential to new race goers than a whole list of meaningless statistics and abbreviations. The other thing to note of course, is even if a new person can work their way through a form guide, what would they actually glean from it?
There's never any explanation (possibly because no definative explanations exist) just what having the letters BF after a horse actually means in terms of directing a decision.

Alright so it's a beaten favourite, I can look that up on my key, but what does this mean? Am I supposed to place a bet on it? or should I avoid it? It only tells a fraction of a fuzzy picture. To be honest, you'd probably get a better response if you got the local tarot reader or astrologer to offer an opinion based on the juxtaposition of the 10 of swords with the planet Neptune
 
Warbler I agree with everything you've said and couldn't put it better - to be honest everything a racegoer would need is put into a piece of paper of 40 odd pages called the Racing Post only expieranced racing fans could understand and what group of people on a day out is going to sit down and try to attempt reading that because generally the first point of call is the bar or the burger van. How can racecourses interprit that information onto the course itself in a simplistic way that could aid the racegoer in having a bet because lets be realistic thats all part of the fun and everyone wants to back a winner, even singling out a few T.V's(or a T.V at smaller tracks) for statistical purposes
 
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Warbs, just how long is it since you actually went racing, darling? :-) There are always tipsters on hand in the parade ring or somewhere where everyone can easily see them, trawling through the cards and telling the listening public what to think about, and what to avoid. Simon Holt, Mike Cattermole, all kinds of presenters, race callers, general boffins, have a go at this.

Anyway, you've got the race card notes which are generally pretty good - whoever writes them for Brighton's 'Tote Tips' usually manages to find at least a couple of winners and two or three e/w shots every meeting:

1st race: tipped CELESTIAL DREAM and CLEISTHENES (2nd and 1st respectively)
2nd race: blank
3rd race: SENESCHAL (1st), SPIT AND POLISH (2nd)
4th race: place
5th race: place
6th race: CHALICE WELCOME (1st)

So, you might just as well put your money down on the basis of race card notes, on-course tipsters, Auntie Mabel's house number, and the age of your cat.
 
krizon said:
Warbs, just how long is it since you actually went racing, darling? :-) There are always tipsters on hand
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Saturday evening at Thirsk. Luckily we didn't have Mike Cattermole advising us what to bet, or anyone else I could see/ hear for that matter. We did have a brass band though playing the 007 theme amongst other dirges. To be honest, I'd be surprised if too many people took much notice of these silly set pieces anyway, but they don't do any harm
 
9. stick to the time-table. the 4.00 o'clock: no horses in the parade ring before 3.50 -- why? am I supposed to look at them all & get a price & bet in 10 minutes? fucking amateur night.

That was actually at Kempton the next day.
 
So you don't want it changed -- ok: tell the people who run it, bet they'll like to hear that.
I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm letting people know what I found. You know, 'I' as in customer.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Shadz, if everyone in the industry had that attitude, the sport would die on it's arse from a lack of attendance, interest, and ultimately outside investment (the desperation of the Derby sponsorship shambles illustrates this).
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Absolute nonsense. Jesus, the sport has only managed to last about 400 years without introducing the circus element you are suggesting.

It's not needed and it's bollocks. When Sandown tried something similar at the Whitbread a few weeks back (loud music accompanying loudmouth Kemp screaming down the microphone to "put your hands together for the JOCCKKEEEEEEEEZZZ, ladies and gentleman!!!") it did nothing but irritate most people, as well as make it very difficult for people to work with such crap being broadcast as loud as possible.

Let's face it, introducing such ridiculous measures isn't going to get crowds flooding through the gates; it's just a stupid idea that will annoy more people than it will attract. It's the racing we should be trying to promote, not turning the whole thing into a shambles reminiscent of
The X Factor or some other talent show. I fail completely to see the need to constantly lower standards to such levels in order to communicate to the stupid and the lazy.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Absolute nonsense. Jesus, the sport has only managed to last about 400 years without introducing the circus element you are suggesting.

It's not needed and it's bollocks. When Sandown tried something similar at the Whitbread a few weeks back (loud music accompanying loudmouth Kemp screaming down the microphone to "put your hands together for the JOCCKKEEEEEEEEZZZ, ladies and gentleman!!!") it did nothing but irritate most people, as well as make it very difficult for people to work with such crap being broadcast as loud as possible.

Let's face it, introducing such ridiculous measures isn't going to get crowds flooding through the gates; it's just a stupid idea that will annoy more people than it will attract. It's the racing we should be trying to promote, not turning the whole thing into a shambles reminiscent of
The X Factor or some other talent show. I fail completely to see the need to constantly lower standards to such levels in order to communicate to the stupid and the lazy.
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:) :D :lol: one has to laugh, and I just did.
 
Someone said the parade ring at Newmarket is too small, I would argue it is too big and that one cannot see the horses for enough time as they have so far to walk and spend more time further away from wherever you choose to stand.
We didn't go to the parade ring for most of the races at the Guineas meetings as we prefer to see them in the pre parade ring and then watch them walk out and go down the course, but we thought we heard the jockeys being announced one by one as they came out of the weighing room? What was that about? A pause between each one as well as if expecting a round of applause.
As to educating race goers, before the 1000 Guineas a young lad was behind us at the pre parade ring so we let him stand in front of us being of small stature. Clutching his racecard he asked 'Where's no 2?' Having her saddle put on we told him. He then turned and said 'who's J Murtack - is he any good?' Johhny Murtagh - yes we say very good. 'Is he better than Frankie?'
'Anyone's better than Frankie. Are you going to bet on Johnny Murtagh?'
'No, I'm going to bet on my Dad.'
'Who's your dad?'
'Jimmy Quinn'
'Are you going to be a jockey when you grow up?'
'Definitely not.'
 
It's piss easy.

Work with RUK and the tracks to get historical races back onto YouTube. Throw a few quid at a production company to make several montages showing just how exciting racing can be. Use the same company to produce a definitive guide to betting, and a definitive guide to form analysis, and bung them onto YouTube as well. Link the fecking lot of them.

All of the above would probably cost less than the price of this survey alone.

If the target audience is the 20-somethings, the Internet is the only way to get them interested. Any other approach is a complete waste of time.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Absolute nonsense. Jesus, the sport has only managed to last about 400 years without introducing the circus element you are suggesting.

It's not needed and it's bollocks. When Sandown tried something similar at the Whitbread a few weeks back (loud music accompanying loudmouth Kemp screaming down the microphone to "put your hands together for the JOCCKKEEEEEEEEZZZ, ladies and gentleman!!!") it did nothing but irritate most people, as well as make it very difficult for people to work with such crap being broadcast as loud as possible.

Let's face it, introducing such ridiculous measures isn't going to get crowds flooding through the gates; it's just a stupid idea that will annoy more people than it will attract. It's the racing we should be trying to promote, not turning the whole thing into a shambles reminiscent of
The X Factor or some other talent show. I fail completely to see the need to constantly lower standards to such levels in order to communicate to the stupid and the lazy.
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I suspect no one is suggesting what happens at Sandown becomes the norm.

So what suggestions do you have Dom?
 
Dumbing down is everywhere, I'm afraid, Shads.

Everything these days seems to be marketed as if we are all idiots.

Television news programmes all seem to have a 'Blue Peter' approach to reporting.
 
Colin Phillips said:
Dumbing down is everywhere, I'm afraid, Shads.

Everything these days seems to be marketed as if we are all idiots.

Television news programmes all seem to have a 'Blue Peter' approach to reporting.
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How exactly is picking out a few of the leading horses in each over the speaker dumbing things down?

Dumbing things down to me is getting a shed load of people in the gates, do absolutely nothing to encourage them to learn about the sport and just leave them in the bars getting locked. May as well just send them to the pub.
 
Grasshopper said:
Work with RUK and the tracks to get historical races back onto YouTube. Throw a few quid at a production company to make several montages showing just how exciting racing can be.
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Bingo. Here you have a product that is perfect for sites like YouTube, and yet all that's been done is to try and "protect rights" as if they were making money out of footage of the 2002 Derby or the 2004 Gold Cup some other way!
 
I don't know Gal, but I'd definitely go for something like Grassy is suggesting, not turning a day at the races into a pantomime.

Besides, at places like Sandown and Kempton (and others) they already have mincing idiots giving their opinions on the horses over the loudspeaker before they go on the track, then tipping the favourite each time!

I agree Colin - and people wonder why standards are doing nothing but fall dramatically? Everything nowadays seems to be dumbed down to cater for the stupid and the lazy.
 
If you don't realise just how much the media as a whole is responsible for dumbing down virtually every aspect of our lives, then I will bet you serious money you are under 30 years of age.

You only have to watch any so-called 'documentary' to understand where I am coming from. Documentaries used to contain serious amounts of genuine information, with the narrator talking for the majority of the airtime. Next time you watch any non-fiction programme, note how much 'padding' there is - loads of musical interludes with pretty pictures. Our attention span is getting to be not much better than the average goldfish's. We have permitted commercialism to go from a couple of advertising breaks per 60 minutes to three and now four per 60 mintes - and they average out at 5 minutes per break, leaving just forty minutes of actual programme time.

The same ethos applies to just about every aspect of life and commercially, it's part of the whole economic crisis we are now facing. Instant gratification was always going to have a wake-up call because it's unsustainable, as we are all now finding out.

Presenters seem to have lost the art of genuinely drawing in their target audience and firing them up with their own enthusiasm for their chosen subject matter. Find some charismatic presenters who are given decent exposure and they will draw in more viewers and ultimately more racegoers.
 
Songsheet said:
If you don't realise just how much the media as a whole is responsible for dumbing down virtually every aspect of our lives, then I will bet you serious money you are under 30 years of age.

You only have to watch any so-called 'documentary' to understand where I am coming from. Documentaries used to contain serious amounts of genuine information, with the narrator talking for the majority of the airtime. Next time you watch any non-fiction programme, note how much 'padding' there is - loads of musical interludes with pretty pictures. Our attention span is getting to be not much better than the average goldfish's. We have permitted commercialism to go from a couple of advertising breaks per 60 minutes to three and now four per 60 mintes - and they average out at 5 minutes per break, leaving just forty minutes of actual programme time.

The same ethos applies to just about every aspect of life and commercially, it's part of the whole economic crisis we are now facing. Instant gratification was always going to have a wake-up call because it's unsustainable, as we are all now finding out.

Presenters seem to have lost the art of genuinely drawing in their target audience and firing them up with their own enthusiasm for their chosen subject matter. Find some charismatic presenters who are given decent exposure and they will draw in more viewers and ultimately more racegoers.
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I was referring to the "dumbing down" experience at the racecourse, not on TV.
 
I wouldn't say they were mutually exclusive Gal.

Most people's first exposure to any sport is gained through the old goggle box, cut off this life line or dilute its impact and you're on a medium term slippery slope
 
krizon said:
About racecards: Plumpton does throw theirs in with the price of an entrance fee, and most Annual Members get them free at pretty much most racecourses. quote]

Not at Cheltenham. The only thing we get for free nowadays is entrance. Even Level 3 for all but the minor days are off-limits unless we pay an extra £25 to £100 per day/meeting. Car parking tickets are provided for all days bar the Festival, for which they want a further £25. Apparently this is all to keep the cost of membership down.

They do provide the Western Daily Press for free, though.
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Yeah, it's crap isn't it? Considering that most of Cheltenhams racedays are during bad weather I think it is pretty mean to make us pay more to have a chance to get under cover. I did buy some places a few times, but will not bother now, could not even move once in the door! :mad:

It remains my fav track but no value for money really. Anyway I like to see the horses so spend nearly all of my time at paddock or on the rail, rain or shine.
 
That's a poor show, Redhead. I know Ascot imposes various restrictions on its AMs for 'Royal' time, and Goodwood for 'Glorious', but otherwise they treat their AMs quite civilly.
 
We have few privileges left, even the Paddock Stand is now open to all and sundry except for the Open and Festival meetings and even then I have seen a security man let a group of non-members in for a fiver - while refusing a top trainer entry for forgetting his badge, even while addressing him by name.

The only consolation is that the fee pays entrance for the Festival and gives us the other meetings almost free.
 
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