1000/2000 Guineas

Last three races were nearly 6 seconds slower than standard...that’s slow and shows the rain got into the ground as the afternoon progressed.
 
jinnyj said:
Last three races were nearly 6 seconds slower than standard...that’s slow and shows the rain got into the ground as the afternoon progressed.
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How soft was it then though? Bear in mind, if you can find a 5f sprinter that can do 60 seconds on very slow ground, you would be looking at Dayjur. You are talking about races that had more rain than the guineas in the last two. Do you know what the pace was in the guineas?

Yes it was slower than good, but using it as an excuse seems odd to me. I'll wager good to soft at worst in the guineas.

Most races these days are run on good or good to soft going due to watering. It was no worse ground than most meetings get watered to nowadays

I can post many slow times after watering, yet the course says good to firm. Any horse today that couldn't perform on that surface, has little chance of seeing much faster ground these days, the hosepipe makes sure of that.
 
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I once remember a trainer saying to me “it’s not because my horse is faster than others on soft ground, it’s just because he handles it and they don’t and plenty don’t!”
 
jinnyj said:
They changed it from good to soft to soft after the third race, I believe.
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How do you explain 60 seconds for 5 furlongs on soft ground though for the 5th race? Must be the sprinting champion of the world? As must the next four home behind.

I'm wasting my time clearly;), if you think that was soft ground then wait until they water at such as Windsor next time and pronounce it Good to firm, then check the times as you did today.
 
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I’m just going on what the official going is down as.

Trust me I know plenty about ground conditions! I spent many sleepless nights when I was due to have a runner phoning the Met Office to find out what the weather was and therefore the ground was likely to be. And yes I have been known to berate Clerks of the Course who having told me the ground was good to firm, proceeded to turn on the taps and then I and my owners arrive to find a bog and a horse who cannot handle anything slower than good to firm. Some choice words and some disgruntled owners.
 
Little Big Bear is reportedly lame behind after the race. I wonder if he was either struck into as it got a bit rough early on or he’s had a problem which is the reason why he’d been off for so long and he’ll be retired forthwith? Moore said AR was never travelling after he got in the scrimmaging either.
 
I will really have to question my judgement if Tahiyra is beaten tomorrow.

I think she's the best the H H Aga Khan has had since Zarkava and will be shocked if she doesn't just win but doesn't win easily.
 
EC21 said:
Whether they handle it or not, they still don't go 5f in 60 seconds on soft ground.
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Of course they do and they don't need to be Dayour.Time Easterby's Winter Power who ran against the likes of Nature Strip clocked 59.75 seconds on Soft at Newmarket.i backed the useless thing on the strength of it

Not a great idea to compare 5f times to 1 mile times as it depends on the pace and they certainly went too fast for their own good early and the mile time was slower than normal for soft.
 
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She’s by Siyouni out of a Cape Cross mare so should theoretically handle ease the official ground :whistle: although Dermot Weld isn’t hugely positive in the RP?
 
jinnyj said:
Little Big Bear is reportedly lame behind after the race. I wonder if he was either struck into as it got a bit rough early on or he’s had a problem which is the reason why he’d been off for so long and he’ll be retired forthwith? Moore said AR was never travelling after he got in the scrimmaging either.
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I imagine the latter with LBB jinny.
Time will tell though.
 
One of the first things I did within an hour of the race was to check the time. It was 5.74s slow, which equates to almost half a furlong, so either they ran quite slowly or the ground slowed them up or some kind of combination of the two.

Don't get me wrong. The 2000G is the 2000G and the form is always worth respecting. Maybe some didn't act in the ground, maybe some left their race on the gallops - it happens - maybe some just didn't like the weather but if the same 14 horses turned out in midsummer on fastish ground I would expect a quite different outcome apart from maybe Chaldean and Royal Scotsman.

I have to be honest, if I were the owner of either of the rags and I thought my horse was up to running to that kind of level I'd be targeting the Britannia, then maybe the Golden Mile, then maybe the Cambridgeshire. Winning the Britannia would be the equivalent of running third in the Guineas. But that's down to my love of big handicaps. None of this fannying about tilting at windmills :lol:
 
Desert Orchid said:
One of the first things I did within an hour of the race was to check the time. It was 5.74s slow, which equates to almost half a furlong, so either they ran quite slowly or the ground slowed them up or some kind of combination of the two.

Don't get me wrong. The 2000G is the 2000G and the form is always worth respecting. Maybe some didn't act in the ground, maybe some left their race on the gallops - it happens - maybe some just didn't like the weather but if the same 14 horses turned out in midsummer on fastish ground I would expect a quite different outcome apart from maybe Chaldean and Royal Scotsman.

I have to be honest, if I were the owner of either of the rags and I thought my horse was up to running to that kind of level I'd be targeting the Britannia, then maybe the Golden Mile, then maybe the Cambridgeshire. Winning the Britannia would be the equivalent of running third in the Guineas. But that's down to my love of big handicaps. None of this fannying about tilting at windmills :lol:
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Reminds me of Sir Mark's comments re Pivotal.
Cheveley Park wanted a stallion so he went for Kings Stand while Sir Mark wanted to run him in a 50K 5f 3yo handicap at York the previous Saturday for a punt !
 
I have to confess something else about the Guineas: I wouldn't have backed Chaldean in a month of Sundays.

In the Newbury race when Frankie baled out at the start I reckoned the horse should have run away from its field in the final furlong with no jockey on its back but the winner ran past it and was pulling away from it. That was my cue to note down Chaldean as a non-stayer.

Maybe it wasn't that fit that day. What price would it have been today if it had done that with a jockey up at Newbury?
 
I think you will find, DO that a horse wont necessarily make the maximum effort without a rider on! :lol:
 
9th October 2020
She clocked the 5f in 59.75 on Soft ground and won by 3 lengths
 
Guineas winner raced prominently and the 2nd led for much of the way, which suggests the pace wasn't all that taxing.
Ian Balding said, after the Dewurst "I'd be surprised if he got more than a mile" and his future entries give credence to that view.
 
jinnyj said:
I think you will find, DO that a horse wont necessarily make the maximum effort without a rider on! :lol:
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Oh I know that, jinnyj, which is why I like to keep an eye out for horses that do run away from their field without a jockey!
 
14mm of rain during the day yesterday according to Michael Prosser CofC there which changed the ground from being official Good before racing to Soft during the afternoon racing (that’s quite a change!) Salisbury has been called off due to getting the same heavy rain yesterday.

Big drift on Mediate presumably down to the ground too.
 
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Yeah two very nice fillies but I’d be backing the runner up to reverse placing next time.
 
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