2000 Guineas

Flame said:
Gibb River was expected to be the lead horse for many 2yo's. It started that way but it became obvious it was a bad idea when they weren't getting near him in the work :lol:. In some of his later work, he was working 10L clear of Monitor Closely and also trounced It's A Man's World 16L on the Al Bahathri in a strong piece of work in September. It's A Man's World now no longer with Chapple-Hyam is rated 70 and looks handicapped to win off that, I think Gibb River is easily a 100 plus horse. He was due to run at Newbury in a race I bigged up Roman Republic (and done my knackers) but flipped in the stable yard and done a small bit of damage. He has been given plenty of time and is back in steady work. I think he'll be Chapple-Hyam's best horse this season and I wouldn't look too much into his first two runs, he was very green on debut and didn't get the mile second time out. If I was Chapple-Hyam I would be coming back in a 5f maiden and getting him well beat. Then I would find a 1m handicap off a nice mark in the 70s and have the house on it. Sadly Chapple-Hyam is not me and I expect he'll appear in a mile maiden around April at a leading track and be hyped into favourtism despite modest form.

Zacinto, awww you've mentioned one of my fav's. He's so lovely you could wrap him up in a big duvet and bring him home and give him a teddy bear. He loved the fast ground on his debut and 2nd time out he had, had his setbacks so was ring rusty. Given a break this colt is a huge horse, He is perfectly mannered as well and has a great battling attitude.
His mother Ithaca was a looker as well who needed fast ground and she was the daughter of the top class Realms Of Verse, and was by Distant View. This is where the need for fast ground comes for Zacinto who unlike many Dansili's doesn't want cut. He is only in very early stage work at the moment but has wintered well. He'll get a mile and further and is very nice.
I think he'll be group 1 class and is my 4th favourite colt in that yard. If he doesn't do well this year he'll make a lovely pet for someone. He walks around like a right dude and when the horses are fresh and bucking and squealing he just keeps on walking looking chilled as if it's all too much effort to mess around.
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Cheers, Flame.

Regarding Godolphin, looking through the pedigrees of some of their unraced 3yo's, they certainly look to have more than enough ammunition to make an impact!
 
They sold a now 3yo, unraced, at Doncaster in October called Antipodean - he'll be worth looking out for in bumpers, lovely stamp of a horse. I couldn't believe the size of him - he must've been a good 16.3hh. He's immature mentally but if they can get that straight (which is sure to happen in time) he looks a lovely prospect and I wish I'd bought him.
 
What was his breeding Dom ?

I'll look him up on my files and see if he ever done much or had any notes or problems.
 
Your Old Pal would be an interesting outsider if he went for the race, Beardo. He was most impressive in winning his maiden at Newbury in October. It was soft ground, granted, but the time was very decent. Although he wasn't expensive at the sales, he's certainly well-bred. Even if he doesn't make the Guineas he strikes me as worth following.
 
Which race do you think Zacinto will go for Flame? I saw him win fto at Sandown on Eclipse day (got a pic or two somewhere) and was very impressed with him. He looks the right type for the Guineas to me
 
He is definitely being aimed for the Guineas alongsides Saptapadi and Desert Creek.

He is likely to have a prep in the Craven.
 
@flame if you have all the fancy prices on the so-called Godolphin superstar, why not telling us on here? alternatively, if you do not want to talk about it, why mention it in the first place?
 
trackside528 said:
Cheers, Flame.

Regarding Godolphin, looking through the pedigrees of some of their unraced 3yo's, they certainly look to have more than enough ammunition to make an impact!
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Regarding Godolphin, on paper and pedigree they had the ammunition for anything for the last 10 years or so.
 
Cityscape won't have the toe for a mile but he looks a lovely prospect for the later races - not so sure his physical stature will suit Epsom but he'd be a nice sort for the Leger. There you go, a Leger horse tipped up in January!
 
"There you go, a Leger horse tipped up in January!"

Shads, just had a look at his breeding, it's not brimful of stamina and there must be doubts about him getting the Leger trip.
 
crazyhorse said:
@flame if you have all the fancy prices on the so-called Godolphin superstar, why not telling us on here? alternatively, if you do not want to talk about it, why mention it in the first place?
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I mentioned it as I intend to mention it when it's down to run. I did big it up last season but it picked up a minor knock. Now he is not back in training yet so I wouldn't want to look a div if it never saw the track, neither for that matter if it didn't get over it's injury and turned up at the sales as I would plan to buy it cheaply. Those are my reason's.

My worry about Evasive would be its need for cut in the ground. He's a nice horse but I'm far from convinced he has the class of Desert Creek.

The dark horses are easily Saptapadi and Almuktahem who look really nice types.

In other words I don't want to give the name of a horse that works like a 100+ horse, which has currently been on the injured list. As wouldn't be uncomman for them to go missing and turn up at the sales.
 
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Won't know anything on Cecil's until he starts working them in another 4 or 5 weeks. No notes on any of there's but will let you know as and when I do.
 
Flame said:
Won't know anything on Cecil's until he starts working them in another 4 or 5 weeks. No notes on any of there's but will let you know as and when I do.
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Interesting Flame,

I know that Cecil has an unraced filly called Ramora that is owned by Plantation Stud. He spoke very highly of her at Newmarket last year. She never made it to the track but it would be interesting to know how she has done since the summer.
 
She caught my eye in a couple of gallops last season looked to want a trip to me.

She used to work with Za Za who never really set the world alite.

Apple Charlotte was not expected on debut.

I'm not convinced by Cecil's horses from last year, the only couple who got me excited were Father Time and On Our Way (and Wingwalker but sadly he is dead). Sadly I told everyone to be on Father Time on debut, and didn't back it myself, so's life.
 
Flame said:
I'm not convinced by Cecil's horses from last year, the only couple who got me excited were Father Time and On Our Way (and Wingwalker but sadly he is dead). Sadly I told everyone to be on Father Time on debut, and didn't back it myself, so's life.
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On Our Way struck me as a horse who would really improve for a winter on his back. Big, scopey horse.

What do our pedigree experts make of Crowded House's pedigree, particularly in relation to his chance in the Derby?

Though I have slight doubts about Jukebox Jury's resolution under pressure, the Racing Post Trophy form surely represents the best form on offer by some way in the context of the race.
 
Flame said:
She caught my eye in a couple of gallops last season looked to want a trip to me.

She used to work with Za Za who never really set the world alite.

Apple Charlotte was not expected on debut.

I'm not convinced by Cecil's horses from last year, the only couple who got me excited were Father Time and On Our Way (and Wingwalker but sadly he is dead). Sadly I told everyone to be on Father Time on debut, and didn't back it myself, so's life.
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I am pretty sure that she is by Monsun out of a staying mare so she would certainly want at least 10f. The fact that she was catching the eye last year is encouraging.
 
Roger Charlton thinks a lot of Border Patrol (for Elite) and he has a Derby entry. He did very little with him last year and just gave him an 'educational' at Newbury - he was always intended to be for this year which is why he went to Charlton and not Cole

Sorry not a Guineas horse but we seem to be discussing the whole generation!
 
How about Delegator? I know Brian Meehan already has Control Zone, Crowded House and Skanky Biscuit who are all arguably classic prospects but I liked the way he ran in the Dewhurst Stakes considering his lack of racing experience at a higher level and he won really well at Newmarket the time before that. We discussed him last season with Flame when he made his debut against the sadly departed Wingwalker. Any thoughts or am I off the mark...again! :(

I have copy and pasted the below from another forumand this chap seems pretty sweet on his chances so I am not totally alone on this.

The most exciting performance I saw last season outside of the top level came from the Brian Meehan trained Delegator who I felt didn't get the credit he deserved when winning a 7f maiden at Newmarket (July) in late August from the fast finishing Palavicini, for if he were trained by a Sir Michael Stoute or Aidan O'Brien, people would have been musing over the performance for days. The eventual distance was only a length from the fast finishing runner up, but Delegator already had the race well and truly sewn up after showing a devastating turn to take four 4 lengths out of the field before running around towards the line and was significantly eased, still looking incredibly inexperienced. That run had been preceded by a promising debut run at the same course three weeks earlier when he did everything but win on his debut in a newcomer's event when kicking clear of his rivals before running around again, but this time was too green to see it out to the line and was reeled in by Wingwalker close home. He got outpaced in the run to the line in the Group 1 Dewhurst Stakes but was still on level terms with the principals approaching the distance before his effort came to an end close home, though it seemed he just run green rather than being outclassed and it was a fine effort for a horse stepping straight out of maiden company. He has the scope to make up into a top class three-year-old and it isn't beyond the realms of possibility he could improve past the four that finished in front of him that day, namely Intense Focus, Finjaan, Lord Shanakill and Shaweel, all of whom had considerably more experience than him on the day and perhaps aren’t open to as much improvement. His trainer has always held him in high regard and you can see why with his devastating turn of foot (and the fact he can travel so strongly throughout his races) a major weapon in his armoury; rates a serious 2000 Guineas contender and in general a smart prospect over 8-10f this season now he has had time to strengthen up as he still looked very immature, even in the Dewhurst. When it all falls into place, he could prove to be a serious horse and ante-post quotes of 33/1 for the 2000 Guineas look very generous indeed.
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