2000 Guineas

Toormore described as running flat and beaten at halfway by Hughes according to RUK might take that with a pinch of salt but he said something pretty similar about Toronado's flop .

I suspect if they have got on top of his breathing issues Toronado could be a monster this year.

Kingston Hill looked seriously outpaced but interesting to see how like WarCommand Ertijaal he ran his fastest furlong between 4f and 3f out . Very difficult to see him improving enough to beat Australia when that horse is bred to get 1m 4f standing on his head but of course both his parents were very good at 10f too.
 
SteveM said:
I'm not sure they wanted to be stone last leaving the gates. He was always making ground on the leaders until hitting the front and by then had given his lot.
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Yes, I'd forgotten about that. Just watched the race again on C4+1. I wonder if Doyle panicked a little and went a shade early. He went past NOT only to be passed by him again late on.

It looked a very fast race overall.
 
interesting sectionals showing kingman finishing stronger than everything in the field bar the winner. got the mile fine imo.

the slow break wasn't ideal
 
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My initial crude calcs suggest the Guineas was run 7lbs faster than the Palace House before any wfa considerations. The latter looked strongly run so I imagine we'll be looking at a rating in the high 120s for the winner (and therefore top class figures for the next two home), reinforcing the pre-race impression that it was very strong in depth.
 
Tanlic said:
Feel real sorry for anyone who backed Kingman that was a shocking ride.
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Can't agree with this. Didn't back him but I can't see much wrong with his ride. The horse ran out of petrol in the last furlong.

Strange result in some ways but the form looks strong, the right horses came to the fore. Strong pace and a mile brought out the best in the winner. Interesting he clocked the fastest furlong in the race.
 
Frankel said:
I would fancy Kingman around Goodwood.
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The Hannons won't allow any more crawls for Kingman though I bet .

The three home after the winner were all unbeaten before the race . I cannot see why the form would fall apart .
 
Ardross said:
The Hannons won't allow any more crawls for Kingman though I bet .

The three home after the winner were all unbeaten before the race . I cannot see why the form would fall apart .
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You're right, except Kingman would have been fine if put in the race at the start.
 
Just watching it again Kingman got proper first run on N of T after that horse was in a pocket . Terrific turn of foot from the winner .

The other thing I noticed is that Joseph gave Australia a bit of a beating in the final furlong hope that does not leave any mark .
 
It looks a real good Guineas, the best since Sea The Stars.
Delighted to see Fallon do what he does best.
Owner has been some supporter these past years also so great to see him with a top class horse. What chances K Fallon keeping the ride for the season ?
 
Gamla Stan said:
I can't have Kingman at that price in a classic given he's had a problem and has the risk of bouncing off a massive effort. He could be a serious horse though but he's not my sort of price. I think Night of Thunder ran a big ran first up behind him and he could easily fill the frame again and is a very big price.

The main value is with the two French runners Bookrunner and Charm Spirit who ran in the Djebel. It was a bunch finish but both runners are going to come on a bundle and the time was very strong.
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Tres bien fait.

Congrats.
 
All credit to the owner too it would have been very easy to have gone for the Poulains instead after the Greenham.
 
Desert Orchid said:
My initial crude calcs suggest the Guineas was run 7lbs faster than the Palace House before any wfa considerations. The latter looked strongly run so I imagine we'll be looking at a rating in the high 120s for the winner (and therefore top class figures for the next two home), reinforcing the pre-race impression that it was very strong in depth.
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i think most races were'n't true tests DO..even Sole Power's race there were a few pulling..i think sole power..nova champ..and barley mow are all just a little slower than their OHR's....i get these speed figures [incl wfa]

78 NICEOFYOUTOTELLME
109 SOLE POWER
86 GOSPEL CHOIR
130 NIGHT OF THUNDER
65 NOVA CHAMP
103 BARLEY MOW
72 HORS DE COMBAT

Going = -13lbs per mile = [GOOD]
 
I don't pretend to be able to compete with you guys in terms of knowledge on all this.

However, what I would say is, Kingman ran a 'great trial' at Newbury for the Guineas...still got turned over in the Guineas.

Australia did the same yesterday, will now will go to the derby a hot jolly.

Surely what happened yesterday could indicate it might be worth playing the odds on horses in these events in relation the their merit, as opposed to potential improvement, possible superstardom and so forth?

I wouldn't take short odds on Australia, that's just the way I'm programmed! 7/4 nice if you're having 20K on and he wins by 15 lengths but not worth the bother to smaller players. shurely?
 
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Hamm said:
Tres bien fait.

Congrats.
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Cheers, throw enough **** and some will stick eventually! Just thought if you took Kingman out of the Greenham, he had won a trial very convincingly, 10/1 a place seemed big and I did most of it in the W/O Kingman market at 33 to be honest.

Can't understand why the media are saying what an unfathomable result it was, horse probably just improved for the run more than the favourite but strongly suspect Kingman might do a Raven's Pass and improve past him as the year gos on.
 
I don't understand the surprise or price..its not like he hadn't looked good last year.

when you look at how badly such as Rodrigo De Triano & To Agori Mou ran in the greenham and then were spot on the big day..its a trial after all..its like what went off over the winter with Jezki and HF...HF mopped the trials up..if you can call Irish CH one ...and then was bettered in the big one
 
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