2008 Departures

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Yes I meant to put that up for you too Arkers, maybe they would send you a copy of the tape?

They did she is going to be covered by Kayf Tara, and I see from the website that anyone can register to belong to her fanclub and thereby has an option to take a share in her foals - hope you are going to do that Arkers :luv: Then we can all follow them by proxy
 
Talented novice chaser Sobers has been put down - Courtesy of The Racing Post
by John Sexton



SOBERS, who remains the subject of a BHA investigation into suspicious betting patterns surrounding a race at Ayr more than two years ago, has been put down after infection got into a tendon-sheath injury suffered while schooling.

Nick Gifford, for whom the Paul Becks-owned seven-year-old had won his last two races, said on Saturday: “It's desperate and very sad. They threw everything at him, including every antibiotic known to man, but it wasn't enough to save him.”

Sobers had run seven times for Gifford since joining him at the start of last season, having previously been with Richard Guest, and he won four times.

After a fall on his chasing bow in December, victories at Chepstow and Warwick marked him out as a horse with a bright future, and he was a candidate for the Royal & SunAlliance Chase until injury struck.

He was immediately put on antibiotics and they seemed to be having the desired effect, so much so that by mid-February Beck told the Racing Post there was a “50-50” chance of the horse racing again this season.

However, Gifford explained: “About three weeks ago, he became a bit sore and so we had further checks done and weren't happy with the outcome.

“He was sent to Newmarket and was there for two weeks under the care of Ian Wright, who is the top man in the country for this sort of injury, but even he couldn't save him.

“It's very sad, as he was a very good horse and had a wonderful temperament, which always makes it that bit worse when you lose them.”

Guest was fined £3,000, with jockey Paul O'Neill banned for 21 days, over the running and riding of Sobers at Ayr on March 10, 2006.

Guest lodged an appeal, which remains on hold pending the outcome of an inquiry by the BHA's security department into suspicious betting patterns.
 
Admiral Peary was pulled up yesterday at Fontwell with a Fatal Injury ..was trained by Dr P Pritchard ...

He was a winner of 4 races a few years back for Charlie Egerton, he was a first three finisher no less than 24 times in 41 starts. :( :(
 
A young gelding with Philip Hobbs, I Predict a Riot, severed a tendon at Taunton today and had to be put down.
 
That's a bad few days... Very sorry about Admiral Peary, wasn't he the horse which ran the day after his elderly owner dropped dead at Cheltenham? At least he had a longish career, unlike some of these
 
Sara Moore's father Mick, a great character, full of fun, and a hard worker in the yard.
He loved his days at the races with Stan - they'd come home after a few beers -
and usually with their pockets stuffed with money, always having had a good laugh.

RIP Mick Roberts

Condolences to Sara and to Sally-Ann who have lost both parents within three weeks
 
Very sad news, Headstrong. Really tough on the girls to lose both parents so close together too. :(
 
Horrific mistake by East Tycoon saw him break his back at Ludlow and was put down.

credit to the camera man who refused to show the horses pulling up as the horse was still down. He fixed his camera on the line and didnt budge it at all.

Sad end to a talented horse.
 
MARBLE ARCH, formerly trained by Hughie Morrison and runner-up to Hors La Loi in the 2002 Ladbroke Hurdle, has died at the age of 12.

The five-time winner retired from racing in 2005 to hunt with his owner and breeder Mary Morrison.

Winner of the inaugural Ladbroke Hurdle in 2001, Marble Arch won over £150,000 in prize-money during his five-year career.

He was a great boost to my training career, the Ladbroke win put us on the map," Morrison said. "He even managed to win a charity race with me on board at Ludlow!

"The great thing was that thanks to Brioney Lloyd who looked after him at livery he was a enjoying a little showjumping and had become an excellent hunter, revelling in his new life after racing, but sadly died in his prime."
 
Originally posted by chrisbeekracing@Mar 20 2008, 05:10 PM

credit to the camera man who refused to show the horses pulling up as the horse was still down. He fixed his camera on the line and didnt budge it at all.
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It seems there was another casualty, not sure how serious, which might have been the reason for the cameraman's reticence: from the RP report << Go For Bust went wrong and was pulled up on the run-in >>
 
Go for bust went lame behind, nothing serious. He pulled up on the run in and was walked back in.

There is a fence about 20 yards after the line and 10 yrds after that, the horse was down on the ground.

whilst there were screens up, the height of the stands there means the screens can been seen over on the camera.

The cameraman waited on the line because of this, and then when the horses came back into view switched back to them walking in.

They showed the head on enough and the finsih enough with Go For Bust pulling up not for that to be a worry. East Tycoon, as reported on a website i saw last night. Shattered a hock (Nr,Hd), Both hind Pasterns, Shattered 4 vertabrae and fractured 2 Tibia.

Now thats an awful injury, and was put down within seconds. I would suggest it was hard to move him off the track and thats why it took so long.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris, I didn't see any racing yesterday at all, very busy here! Yard full of people this morning, huge team down there, I'm taking my time before going down to face the crowds...

Poor East Tycoon, that must have been a very nasty fall indeed
 
He didn't fall it was a poxy water jump that he jumped but caught his hind legs in which caused his back legs to freeze and then he struggled on for two steps and collapsed. Horrific injury and I saw exactly the same injury at Taunton a few years back at the water jump.
Water jumps are not worth it :rant:
 
That's why we don't have any in Ireland. They prove absolutely nothing and should be kept in the show jumping arena. A lad I know sold a decent horse to Paul Nicholls about ten years ago, won first time out for Nicholls and then dropped his legs in the water jump next run. Slashed his tendon. Never raced again. A really nice horse too. I've advocated their banning since then.
 
Ah, we're all agreed then - too many horses have been killed at these 'trick' jumps, most of them by breaking their backs like East Tycoon, leaving their legs in the water. At least Newbury now has a ramp leading up to the jump so horses can see what is over the other side
 
Didn't Market Rasen put in a gentle beach like slope on the landing side of the Water Jump so that if horses do end up putting their hind legs in it they just land on sand?

If they can't do that for all WJ's then they should be abolished.
 
Newbury's water jump has had a raised take off side for a while now.

I don't agree that water jumps should be abolished - for God's sake, jumping is the name of the game and they are not "trick" fences at all. May as well take all the jumps out then since everyone wants the sport dumbing down so much. This is one of the biggest problem jump racing faces at the moment - it seems that the ability of a NH racehorse to jump is almost seen as a bonus by many nowadays rather than a necessity. If people taught their horses to jump properly in the first place the racecourses wouldn't have to be constantly dumbing down their fences, making excuses for water jumps and padding out the jumps with virtually no birch so they are soft as you like and the horses learn [very quickly] that they can simply brush through the top of them.
 
When I said 'trick fences'- this is what a lot of trainers have called them, on the grounds that horses are not trained over them at home and most yards don't take them hunting now - so horses meeting them are often taken by surprise, or were in the past.

Those courses which have kept them have mainly raised the take-off side now, so that horses can see what they are tackling *on take-off*, rather than when they are already in the air and have perhaps not seen a long enough stride because they didn't know there was an added obstacle on the other side which they couldn't see.

I've no objection to stiff fences nor to waterjumps, but I do think if fences which have caused a lot of casualties can be made safer whilst still demanding good accurate jumping, then that is a bonus. Fences which take even good horses by surprise with hidden hazards are in no-one's interest, least of all the horses'. Newbury's fence was changed a few years ago following a spate of fatalities, in consultation with local trainers.

I'd beware SL that your eagerness to contradict everything I say on whatever forum, about whatever subject, doesn't lead you into ever-increasing silliness.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Mar 23 2008, 03:51 PM
Newbury's water jump has had a raised take off side for a while now.

I don't agree that water jumps should be abolished - for God's sake, jumping is the name of the game and they are not "trick" fences at all. May as well take all the jumps out then since everyone wants the sport dumbing down so much. This is one of the biggest problem jump racing faces at the moment - it seems that the ability of a NH racehorse to jump is almost seen as a bonus by many nowadays rather than a necessity. If people taught their horses to jump properly in the first place the racecourses wouldn't have to be constantly dumbing down their fences, making excuses for water jumps and padding out the jumps with virtually no birch so they are soft as you like and the horses learn [very quickly] that they can simply brush through the top of them.
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What the hell does "dumbing down" mean in this context?

Sorry SL, but I disagree ~ I'd like to see stats for number of falls at water jumps versus plain fences in comparison to the percentage of these which are fatal. All types of obstacles are acceptable in cross country races where that is part of the discipline but I've seen a number of truly brutal fatalities at water jumps which show that these fences can't justify themselves on ordinary chase courses.

Exactly how courses build their birch fences is a separate issue and I'm in agreement that tracks like Uttoxeter, Carlisle, Ludlow and Fontwell (particularly the first named, where the fences are now a joke) have gone the wrong way and produced fences which are too soft and teach horses bad jumping habits.
 
Dumbing down means precisely that - let's get rid of water jumps, next it'll be open ditches - they're already building fences soft as jellies now (which is a separate issue but when taking into account the issue of jumps on racecourses it suddenly isn't so separate) as well, so why bother with jump racing at all?

Headstrong, please point out where I am being silly? Unless of course your reference to silliness is anything that doesn't mirror your opinions exactly. Correcting you when you are [frequently] wrong ~ and I'm talking about basic facts now, not differences in opinion ~ does not make an eagerness to contradict everything you say. If you posted less errors and statements that were untrue then I wouldn't be correcting you on them. I'd also like to point out that there are many occasions when I don't point out your errors as I just can't be bothered sometimes, although I do feel that for someone who is so eager to post opinions on everything and anything, you could at least check that what you are posting is correct before you post it.

Rory, we'll have to disagree on this one then - and it might be worth pointing out, HS, that I am disagreeing with not just you, but a handful of people who have asked for the abolishment of water jumps.

As I said in my initial post - and no-one has commented on - if trainers taught horses to jump in the first place then maybe water jumps wouldn't be such a problem. I cannot agree with anyone (that includes your trainer chums HS) who say that water jumps are trick fences - they are not, in my opinion.

The root of this problem is that horses are expected to only jump what they have jumped at home - and that is tending to be a case of scraping over the jumps too rather than jumping them properly. Horses are perfectly capable of jumping safe obstacles even if they haven't encountered them before - how on earth do you think first time hunters or eventers cope, seeing a myriad of fences they haven't jumped at home before?

The importance of the ability of a NH horse to jump should not be underestimated but it appears to me that all too commonly it is being so - it is a necessity, not something which helps it along. Nowadays you see all sorts of hairy jumpers racing - ones which by rights shouldn't be racing over obstacles as they cannot jump properly. This is one area in which racing would do good not to ignore its roots - send the horses out hunting where they get a good chance to see all sorts of obstacles and have to jump them. Failing that, give them a decent education at home and get them jumping properly; if they don't jump well, keep schooling them - over poles, cross country fences, logs, anything - until their jumping improves.

That way we may see less problems at water jumps - I do not personally think that the obstacles themselves are the sole root of the problem. Interestingly enough I'd be interested to find out whether water jumps caused such a furore 40, 50 years ago - I'd suspect not.
 
How about the jockeys in the case of water-jumps, do they get any practice over them?

As a non-rider I am probably the last person to comment but would the jockey have an input in the way a horse approaches a water-jump?

And as an aside, if the fences were as stiff as some want, would Kauto Star still be acclaimed as great?
 
I must say I've never seen many mistakes at water jumps as they are normally small fences.

When I was working as assistant at Mark Rimells, we took all horses out around the cross country course locally every week and got them jumping lots of different obstacles. This included into water and jumping out of water. Not only did it help the horses use muscles they don't normally use but it changed the common routine. We rarely had many fallers, bar Crossbow Creek who was just stubborn.
 
At the risk of being tedious, I repeat: I have NOT called for the abolition of water jumps

Some of them could be made safer, in line with those which have already been altered
- and forgive me if I respect the opinions of people with very many years experience in training horses in NH racing over yours. Trainers don't like seeing their horses break their backs from leaving their hind legs in a jump. You very rarely see that now, thankfully. As you are so young SL you probably can't remember how many fallers there used to be, inc at these jumps; I've been watching racing since the 50s and I doubt there are that many more fallers now

Yes I do occasionally make small mistakes of detail in posting, mainly as my memory is not what it was now I'm getting into my dotage; but I try at least to make a general contribution to the forums I belong to... I think that's preferable to using them just for getting tips - or for self-aggrandisement, carrying on personal feuds and slagging off other people.
 
An open ditch has a take off board which is a clear marker for horse and jockey. No problem with these. The issue with water jumps is that they are small and some horses treat them like hurdles, skipping over them. Thery cannot see the water on the other side, unlike an open ditch. The problem is that the "pond" was in the past, and maybe still now, not made horse friendly. Also, if a horse drops his leg into a water jump, they can injure their back or pelvis which does not happen with an open ditch unless they land on top of the fence due to taking off too far. It is not the number of falls that matters but the mindless injuries from such a jump. I don't think it is a test of a horses ability to jump a fence and if someone can tell me what exactly it proves I'd be interested to know.
 
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