Age of Reason

You don't. You go to Salou with an ex-ex girlfriend for three days (I bailed out it was suppose to be for seven) and that does the trick. Did I enjoy Salou? No I was miserable but there was a long-term project to be completed.
 
Fuck Salou. What a kip. Three of the most depressing days of my life. Salougate was for the greater good though.



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Serious head on - if you really love her you will forgive her anything - if she truly loves you she will never hurt you again. There you have it.... From the horses mouth as it were.
 
Serious head on - if you really love her you will forgive her anything - if she truly loves you she will never hurt you again. There you have it.... From the horses mouth as it were.

Fair shout but it never works like that in reality. There is far too much psychology to how people react in these situations. My guess would be she's having a bad few weeks and she has been recently hearing (on my customised grapevine) how well I'm doing. Therefore appealing to her in the same way as when we first met. She had a weak moment wondering what might have been and perhaps is remorseful for how it ended. It's fascinating stuff.


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I was going out with this girl once - besotted by her etc etc - six months into the thing I head off for a weeks holiday - get back to hear a rumour she had had a dalliance with a guy I knew. She denied it - we broke up for a number of weeks but got back together for four years afterwards. It never worked after because I never forgave her and thus more than likely never truely loved her. Therein lies the issue. If the feeling is strong enough you can forgive anyone anything.



PS. I was only six at the time....
 
Can I chip in on this a weeny bit? I don't think you actually forgive a trespass - what a lot of people decide to do is to simply put it aside, rather than lose their attachment to the object of their desire. Many people put up with regular affairs by their attachments because for them, losing that other person is worse than knowing that they have a need to play around.

If you have a love who's addicted to something - drink, gambling, affairs, collecting soft toys - you will put those issues aside, even if they adversely affect your own life to a degree - if you would rather put up with the negatives than let that person go from your world.

I'm not sure that's always about love. It's sometimes about dependency. That is, depending on the other person to make you feel good about yourself, to validate you, to provide company which stops you feeling lonely or unwanted, or needing to be needed. I don't mean this in a cynical way, but just as an observation. Love is rarely unconditional; dependency of one type or another will more often bypass the blemishes, in order to keep hold of the partnership, however flawed.
 
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What a great post Krizon. You really get it. Selfish needs are the catalyst of all relationships.
 
Well, they're certainly a big part of many, and not just romantic ones, Slim. You're as likely to get the over-clinging parent who keeps their child infantilised into adulthood, never encouraging them to launch into the world, because of their own need to nurture - for which, feel indispensable - well past its best-by date, and who feels threatened by the 'child' trying to form relationships with the opposite sex (loss of indispensability, etc.). You can see that sort of relationship at work with couples, too, where one partner is always acting helpless and the other acting as the dependable one. (It works best if the woman's a tiny blonde - not that I ever wanted to play that role, but it would've looked pretty daft for a woman around 5ft 10in trying to play the helpless ickle girlie!) :<3:

I broke up two of my relationships with guys I thought I really loved: one, because he revealed himself as an exploitative and irresponsible manipulator (proving that love doesn't, in reality, forgive all!); the other because he had developed amnesia about our plans for the future but hadn't the guts to just spit it out that he was having second thoughts. Jeez, I wanted a man with a bit of spine, not a jellyfish! I probably saved myself two divorces by calling time.

Relationships are endlessly fascinating, aren't they? :blink:
 
They are fascinating but it's break ups that are the biggest minefield. Why do people want to go back as in get back with someone they were with before? Is it because it's easier (despite the emotional baggage) to connect with someone you know than someone new?
 
Crikey, Miesque! I'm going to Cut & Paste that to my CV!

Well, that's always an interesting one, Slim. Why, indeed? There is often still this business of dependency at work, I think. Ask any women's shelter why a seriously beaten woman will return to a brutal partner, and there'll be a dozen different answers. Why does a parent let a drug-addled son or daughter back home, knowing they'll steal them blind again? Why does an adult keep returning to a parent in desperate and futile hope that they won't continue to feel unloved or unwanted?

There are probably some set, repetitive scenarios well known to counsellors, psychologists and psychiatrists because they occur so often, with a few personal tweaks.

For a lot of people, a return to base camp is because of the time and emotion they feel they've invested in the other person, and that while there was a blip on the screen, however bad it seemed at the time, they'd rather not start over with a fresh investment of time/emotion/money, whatever. Thus, it's less painful - with all the possibilities of another break down, rejection, and so on - to go back to what's familiar, than to venture out to the new.

That's why I think a lot of folks will go back or be taken back - the blemishes may have been dealt with in their own way ("he only hit me once, he'll never do it again", "she only wants money for really nice things, it's not like she spends it on tat", "he's been clean for three months, so let's have him home again") and although it's a bit like a car with a few dings in the side, it still drives like it did, it still makes the same reassuring engine sounds, so why change it for the unknown one which might turn out to be no better in the end? So, there's the dependability of what's known, rather than the risk of what's not.

There's also the feeling that if you go back/get taken back, you're in a stronger position than people who walk away and don't return. They're now vulnerable to the whims and fancy of starting over with strangers, most of the time. You're not. You have a much better understanding of what to expect - whether it's the occasional slap, philander with someone else, poor hygiene, a tendency to lie, a little too much liking for following up on losses or never staying in a job.

You can say it's love overcoming all things, and in some cases that's quite possibly so, but usually and banally, it's about going for what you know best, rather than venturing for parts unknown. ("There be monsters", as old maps used to say. So rather keep the 'monsters' you've already discovered, than go and find possibly worse ones.)

Well, that's my personal take on a lot of it!
 
Some very good points there, Krizon.

Food for thought regarding the deep human needs for security of some kind or another coupled with what Buddhists regard as the root of all suffering - desire.
 
I haven't read up on Buddhism, Red, although there's a thriving centre literally across the road here. I'm not sure what to make of the main edict. If your desire is to get rid of desire, you're still desirous of something (attaining a perfect state, etc.), so how does that work? I desire to be someone free of desire... it's a bit like saying one fights for peace, innit?

I'm not against all desire - desire for the end to cruelty, poverty, starvation, despotism, corruption, war, 'reality' shows and the X-Factor. So the root of all suffering (Desire with a capital 'D') can be counter-desired, presumably, with its opposite number. Which means there's no end to desiring...


... sorry, I've just hit a mental brick wall with that! :blink:
 
I have my eye on a couple of women at work who are in their mid to late 20s. The age thing has me hesitating but I'm starting to think I should go for it.

I'm in bits at the moment. Since I wrote the above in April I Fell quite badly for one of these women who was in a relationship. It wasn't a happy one though and she thrived on the attention I give her. All the signs that she was interested were there (body language, very high interest in what I thought of her, jealousy when I looked at other women) and when she recently split with her other half I thought I had half a chance. Unfortunately it turns out she's more interested in one of our co-workers. He's younger and taller but a bit of a townie. Anyway, I'll be heading off for our Xmas do in an hour and they'll both be there. The last time we all went out they disappeared for a snog which I discovered and broke up - a big scene followed. I'm too old for this shit. face/palm.
 
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