Arc 2010

What not for Fame and Glory? Can't imagine they are thrilled what how things have turned out. Beating Sariska a length and a half and failing in 2 Arcs does not a stallion make for the likes of Magnier and co.
 
It is hard to know, his results generally are about on a par with Soldier of Fortune, who got sent to stud in France. Though Soldier got placed in two Arcs which helped to raise his French profile.
 
The fact that he's won a Classic and Group 1s at two, three and four, actually makes him very marketable.

I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up in the BC Turf now, as he was clearly in very good nick (or was before getting bashed up) and could gain suitable compensation in a race like this.
 
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Hamm said:
A mid 120s race at best for me. Hard to believe too many ran their race with the way it was run, and I hope people don't rate it too highly just because it is the Arc.
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Would tend to agree with that. Will be interested to see Timeform's take on the race, particularly with regards to how Behkabad's Grand Prix De Paris performance stacks up with his run yesterday.

Mind you if we rate the race through Youmzain, Workforce is probably better than Arkle and possibly the greatest horse since Frankel.
 
SteveM said:
I wouldn't be surprised if he turns up in the BC Turf now, as he was clearly in very good nick (or was before getting bashed up) and could gain suitable compensation in a race like this.
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You're already at the bottom of the cliff though, Steve. Please God don't start climbing again...
 
trackside528 said:
Mind you if we rate the race through Youmzain, Workforce is probably better than Arkle and possibly the greatest horse since Frankel.
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:lol:

Very hard race to rate as I think very, very few ran their race or were taken out before they could.
 
Steve won't be down for long - when he gets his miling head back on...very good mile judge indeed

i said that F&G would have made a great Leger horse as a 3yo..still believe it...maybe they should try the Cup route with him..staying is his game imo

lol..only just seen your post David
 
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Decided to rant about pacemaking tonight and Darrell's just read it out on ATR - put it aside for a Sunday forum for discussion. I hope that someone from RfC might want to add that to their list of to do's of sensible things, rather than some of the timewasting frippery they've gone in for. What's their latest dreadful nonsense? "Gap Yah at the Races", for God's sake! Apparently, it's had a few YouTube hits and is meant to spoof the type of person Jilly Cooper refers to as 'the Check Republic' - braying yuppified tweedies. That should so not encourage young people!
 
Running Workforce in the BC seems madness to me, strikes me as a type who needs gaps between his races and he had a tough race yesterday, a trip to the USA a month later seems too much.

The Japan Cup would be more likely at the end of November, Stoute does enjoy running horses in the race.
 
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SteveM said:
The fact that he's won a Classic and Group 1s at two, three and four, actually makes him very marketable.
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I'm not so sure Steve. I read a very good bio of Robert Sangster (which was in part a bio on Magnier) and based on the insights given in that book, I would doubt a mere stat such as the above would mean Magnier would want to stand Fame and Glory - Magnier seemed to want a potential stallion to prove himself by winning big races against the best horses, and Fame has failed on this score.

Magnier will be aware he has failed his main 4 tests (Derby, Irish Champion and 2 Arcs) and beating Golden Sword and Sariska is not enough.

You would think he would only have the NH option open to him anyway, and Ballydoyle seem pretty well full up in that department.
 
I see little future for F&G as a stallion given his race record. They are full to the gills of middle-distance sires from the Sadler's Wells line. He doesn't have as good a race record as High Chap, Hurricane Run, never mind the big two. I see Scorpion is standing as a National Hunt sire for 4 bar. Although F&G is superior, it is not by much.
 
Fame and Glory may well have been seriously overrated on here but he is a proper G1 horse over 12f - he has won an Irish Derby and a pretty hot renewal of the Coronation Cup and a 10f G1 although the Tattersalls Gold Cup .

But for STS he would have won the Derby and ICS too.

I imagine he will do perfectly OK as a flat sire .
 
You may be right, Ardross. But he is not going to offer anything new to the market, given the other Sadler's Wells line sires in operation.

And don't forget that something like 80% of stallions fail (although there is no reason to think that Fame and Glory would be any more likely to do so).
 
Ardross said:
Fame and Glory may well have been seriously overrated on here but he is a proper G1 horse over 12f - he has won an Irish Derby and a pretty hot renewal of the Coronation Cup and a 10f G1 although the Tattersalls Gold Cup .

But for STS he would have won the Derby and ICS too.

I imagine he will do perfectly OK as a flat sire .
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but if a horse like STS hadn't been there - maybe one like Workforce would have been

removing the winner from a race to say the 2nd would have won such and such without that horse isn't logical..its like saying that the last 10 Derby 5ths would won if the 4 in front hadn't run.

the standard of horse in general trashes that type of argument

the Irish Derby wasn't exactly very competetive that he won either..and it was totally set up for him

I'd say F&G is a pretty good marker horse who will win in his turn..he wants a distance of ground to unlock his full potential..buts that was never going to happen was it?..even though it should have.
 
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