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I'm not sure I understand the debate. If people think they want to risk standing ANY stallion then that's up to them, if people want to send a mare to said stallion, then that's up to them. If people wish to buy any prodgeny from any mating that's up to them. I would assume any one involved in the above would have some understanding of the game. Or is that too simplistic a view. Are there lots of people around who are willing to throw thousands away without taking advice or doing any research. Going by the replies on here people are knowledgeable enough to know what to do.
 
Have to agree let every1 do what they want.Every1 knows there should be some restrictions to stallions retired but its not going to happen so live with it.
THREAD OVER
 
Keep your 'thread over' condescension to yourself, please.

There are too many mediocre stallions and mares being bred from at the moment; it is potentially the biggest problem the racing industry faces. Therefore some sort of control needs to be exerted and some sensible decisions made before things get much worse.
 
Tetley - how many more Class 6 races would you like? Perhaps we could introduce Class 7 and 8 to accommodate the "live with it" attitude to Amateur Hour breeding. Maybe you'd understand the discussion a little more if your answer is "ooh, lots more, please - we really don't have enough already!". Because of the lovely stallion subsidies paid in Ireland, and because a lot of people own really, really bad mares in the UK, which have possibly once come 4th in a Seller at Lingfield, a vast amount of overbreeding has taken place in both countries, although more so in Ireland.

As someone with a bit more than a passing interest in racing (as I perhaps wrongly assumed Dylan T. has), I'd have thought that you might want a reasonably decent product to either own, partially or not, or to bet on? Look at the Irish fields, ffs - stuffed to the gills with total no-hopers, both in jumps and Flat racing, all thanks to generous subsidies (now closed, thank God) which encouraged anyone who had a nag that could manage to stand up long enough to get mated to breed. You now have the inglorious results - dozens of animals tailed off in every race, every meeting. Two-thirds of the field not just not showing much promise, but absolutely never going to. But, hey, if anyone can do what they want, then be prepared to have loads more fixtures to accommodate the madly overproduced ranks of horses - after all, it's not as if there's too much racing, is it? Same for the UK - loads of poor quality racing, but with atrociously bad prize money.

The issue of overproduction has been vexing the ROA and the TBA in the UK - obviously not Ireland, until the subsidies were cut - possibly meaning that a few poor entires might also be. Overproduction seems to be a subject which has flown right over the heads of a few people on this forum - perhaps because they're not involved with any level of breeding or particularly interested in bloodstock, other than to try to eye up future betting prospects. In that case, I can understand how a few people wouldn't give a rat's arse if any amount of donkeys were produced - they're not investing tens of thousands in the business, so why should they?

We seem to suffer from some sort of schizophrenia on the issue - yeah, breed whatever old crap you want! Give it away with a Mars Bar, or race it yourself, or syndicate it to a bunch of beer-chugging yahoos who wouldn't know a gaskin from a gasket. Who cares if racing's reduced to the lowest common denominator? Then, from the other side of the fence come the howls of "there's too much awful racing! Cull these rubbish horses! Stop low-class racing! Cull the mares! Stop that indiscriminate breeding, will ya?"

For God's sake, make your bloody minds up!
 
Why anyone would buy a crap horse out of a crap mare by a crap stallion is beyond me as I am sure it is to most people. What is the cut off point. When does a crap stallion/mare become rather quite good. What did Iceman achieve that Winker Watson didn't.
 
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Shadow Leader said:
I've not necessarily got anything against group 2 winners standing at stud if, on the balance of their form, they are consistent and upholding that form. Winker Watson won his two year old races, disappeared for a year then lost the plot completely. He was inconsistent, clearly had problems (he disappeared for a year) and when he did reappear he had completely lost the thread and showed signs of dubious temperament. Personally I don't think he's good enough to stand and I think that anybody considering sending a mare to him needs their head read.
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can only agree. plus 3500quit is a joke as well. wouldnt use him if you GAVE me 3500 to do so....
 
tetley said:
Why anyone would buy a crap horse out of a crap mare by a crap stallion is beyond me as I am sure it is to most people. What is the cut off point. When does a crap stallion/mare become rather quite good. What did Iceman achieve that Winker Watson didn't.
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The argument isn't all about race records, though, is it ? If you're going to compare ICEMAN and WINKER WATSON, for a start, ICEMAN's pedigree is several notches above WW's! The whole point about ICEMAN is that he was another POLAR FALCON son (like PIVOTAL) out of an extremely good female line - which is not the case with WW. Additionally, ICEMAN was an exceptionally good-looking horse and sorry, but WW doesn't even come near.

Cheveley also do limit the number of mares visiting their stallions and do refuse mares if they don't think they're good enough.
 
Krizon
I no my comment might have sounded immature and sounded that i have no interest in thoroughbred breeding but let me tell you i do its what i live for.But there are no restrictions on stallions retiring and i cant see there being any.In Irish Draughts there are plenty of restrictions and have to be thoroughly vetted.The same should be done for every stallion during the first 5 years when he retires and further checks after.He should be looked at for any hereditary problems that may come down the line.But some people say theres a grand jump in that fella in the field out there you should cover that good mare of yours with him, this is whats happening but they are not looking at confirmation, movement , bone or breeding when doing this.It is the exact same in the racing industry they are breeding bad mares to some good stallion and visa versa.They is always going to be bad ones and more and more of them are going to come but they will be no restrictions as some people cant see the problem.
 
Sorry, I've lapsed into a self-induced coma now - can't possibly express more hope that sense will prevail among the professional breeding ranks, that happy amateurs will drop out and stop poisoning the well of quality racing with shite animals by the trailer-load, etc., etc., never mind raise the thoroughly uneasy question about what happened to all of last year's unsold foals and yearlings, and what happened to this year's 40% that failed to get taken home from the ring? Abattoirs a bit busy, perhaps? But by all means, exercise your right to breed any old crap you want - just don't get too tearful when the knackerman has to take it away because you can neither sell it or keep it or even give it away.
 
Krizon your taking me the wrong way.I dont want to see people breeding bad to bad or good to bad.But who is to say what is good or bad.Its a very funny topic in my opinion there should only be a certain number of stallions and a few introduced each year and thats all.And everyone on here is going on about STALLIONS its the bloody god damn MARES that are ruining everything.
 
Cacoethes Died of a heart attack in Japan

Whisked, Australia’s Broodmare of the Year of 1999 and the dam of two-time champion Tie the Knot, died on September 20 due to complications while foaling
 
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Hamm said:
Should there be a limit on the amount of mares a stallion can receive each season?
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Limits are imposed to regulate exposure to particular lines, but this is usually through choice or circumstance.

In an overproduced industry the imposition of limits would be a good idea. Some stallions have been used too liberally, others not enough.

A slavish following of so-called best-with-best matching has led to a restriction of the gene pool when outcrosses to less fashionable stallions, to those free of Northern Dancer (for example), and perhaps even to other breeds (assuming the stud book were to be 'opened') could be desirable to invigorate the breed.
 
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Danehill Dancer looks to have clinched the sires championship. With Cape Cross having no offspring left in the Racing Post Trophy, it is likely that the 112k gap between them will be enough.
 
Donny October Sales are a bloodbath good and proper. I've just made a thumping great loss on my PROCLAMATION colt (he went for £2K) but at least he's sold, which is more than most of them have been so far. Am very relieved we didn't waste and sales prep fees on the ICEMAN / BARRANTES filly and that she's going straight into training. SONGSHEET's COMPTON PLACE is hopefully going to breeze next year, so apart from one COMPO colt foal, that's me done with the sales for this year. Defnitely sticking to catrle now - they make a lot more for much less input!! :lol:
 
No, it hasn't but most of us could see it coming. At least I am glad I've had the sense not to put my lot back in foal this year and, apart from Songy and the cob mare, probably won't be next, either - in fact I may well move a couple of mares on.
 
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