Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
I think basing it on last year and rolling forward is not making it up at all. Especially given that our economy is accelerating ahead. It just as easy be higher as less

im not that bothered about it in fact. It gets overplayed.
 
The increase from over the last two years has been small, relative to the jump the two previous years (which were admittedly big increases). It's just not that straightforward an extrapolation, imo.

I agree that the immigration aspect can be over-played.....but it's basically the only card Leave have to play. At least your issue is largely about the un-democratic/inefficient nature of the institution itself - much as I disagree with the assertion that these factors render it fatally-flawed and unworthy of participation in.
 
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It's not so much inefficiencies as trust. I do not trust them to make the right decisions. The record is appalling of course but economic policies driven by bureaucratic empire building and pure political idealogy are damaging.

Worse still is that as we have seen time and again, unaccountable governance is crap. As I said before, if the eu was a state it would not be able to join the eu

what does concern me is that by leaving I don't see a natural upswing in trade with the rest of the world. I think that's a bit fanciful as I said a few posts back. On the other hand I don't necessarily see a downswing in trade with the eu. Trade is governed by far greater considerations than a few rules of which the vast majority don't affect most trade

One of the best aspects of the eu for me is the fact that (and this is why the labour leadership are lukewarm) it is a clear bulwark against Putin and his mob. Yes it's not nato but it's a decent fck you to le pen farages and corbyns hero
 
Fair enough.

But are those sufficient-enough reasons to be leaving?

I sort of agree with you on trade - but I'm wary of the "Can't make it easy to Leave" option that the EU may be forced to play. The risk of some form of punitive trade measures being deployed is real, in my opinion - though likely they would be shallow rather than deep, in nature. Either way, we'd be in a 'less good' place than we would be if we stayed in, imo.
 
Why is it that so many brexiteers are so concerned about using 'democracy' as part of their reasoning yet not a peep is heard about the house of lords, which has a far, far greater impact on the laws made with GB?
 
Rubbish

the House of Lords does not initiate legislation or "regulations". Also it never rejects legislation outright. It's role is similar or probably even less powerful than that of the euro MPs who ironically are elected.
 
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The people who sit on the BofE Monetary Policy Board set interest-rates throughout the UK. The decisions of this unelected and largely unaccountable body, have a vastly bigger impact on UK households, than anything the EU has ever managed via regulations. Would you advocate tearing-down our Central Bank in the same way?
 
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That's a nonsense. Interest rates were set by governments until brown handed it back anyway but regardless Interest rates are a response to the government policies and the effect on the economy not a driver of them. The function is to balance the economy
 
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"We're British - we're better than that".

The Leave argument distilled in its purest form - the one which suggests we can overcome any obstacles. Inferred in this, is the suggestion that there will be obstacles to overcome....which is somewhat at-odds with the ginger-bread world they have constructed, where there is absolutely no penalty whatsoever for leaving the EU.

When this kind of conceit and hubris is evident, things usually end in tears.

Please bear this in mind when casting your vote.
 
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Why is it "conceited" to believe that the uk economy and business culture is outstripping the deadbeat euro zone? It's a simple fact on economic stats for a start. Would you like a few stats? Growth? Unemployment?

And it's hardly a blip now is it?

of course there are "obstacles" to overcome but we can be assured that there are going to be plenty of obstacles to come by staying in. Time after time we are fighting against their useless legislation and great projects such as the euro

Anyone one voting to stay who believes that the eu ("an analogue organisation in a digital age") is not going to continue to seek to pull more power away from our democratically elected government is dreaming.
 
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Farage was not referring to the economy or business culture though, was he? He was referring to something altogether less tangible i.e. the notion that we can overcome, just by dint of the fact that we are British.

It is this arrogance that worries me.....because it is an arrogance that appears wholly-unconcerned with the risks inherent in exiting the EU, because - frankly - he, and the wider Leave vanguard, care more about not being in the EU, than they do about the practical impact of Brexit on the UK population.

In fact, they generally appear quite happy to deliberately mislead people, in order to achieve their desired end. I would have more respect for them if they actually said it will be incredibly tough going, but we are resilient-enough as a nation to deal with it. Instead, we get a regurgitation of the SNP/Yes tripe from the Indeyref i.e. a combination of stone-walling, misdirection, bare-faced lies and dreamcatcher nonsense.

This is the calibre of the people who will very-likely lead your newly-energised democratic UK, should Brexit come to pass. Be careful what you wish for.
 
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clivex said:
Why is it "conceited" to believe that the uk economy and business culture is outstripping the deadbeat euro zone? It's a simple fact on economic stats for a start. Would you like a few stats? Growth? Unemployment?
Click to expand...

Clive, what are you talking about?

The last 3 quarters, for example, France has the same growth as the UK. In fact, France's growth trajectory is on the up and the UK's on the way down. This is a FACT. https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=350 Source: OECD

Germany's more or less the same, Ireland's much better than UK, as is Spain. I could go on.

So, please, stop spouting 'untruths'. Or talking absolute bollocks :)
 
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clivex said:
That's a nonsense. Interest rates were set by governments until brown handed it back anyway but regardless Interest rates are a response to the government policies and the effect on the economy not a driver of them. The function is to balance the economy
Click to expand...

Are they still set by Brown then?

It's strange how you only seem to have a problem with potentially undemocratic bodies if they are foreign...

Can you name 5 laws that the EU has implemented over the UK that has a material impact on most people's every day life?
 
Hamm you don't know what your talking about. I explained why interest rates are not policy.

This is embarrassing. Ita very simple stuff
 
Grass I have no time for fa rage and his simpleton nationalism which is akin to the snp but its become typical of the empty stay campaign that there is this constant smearing that any Brexit beliefs are automatically u kip based

They are not
 
Spain is recovering from years of zero growth. It has massive unemployment as does France . Both states were overdue a bounce

You do not take single quarter growth figures. Any number of micro factors can hit a quarter or morw Over past three years UK has far outstripped the eurozone
 
The last 3 quarters ARE reflective of where a country is right now.

It doesn't fit your argument so you are trying to twist stats.
 
You called the Eurozone 'deadbeat' and that the UK is 'outstripping it'. If you can't read these stats, je sais plus quoi faire...
 
Anyone who can't see that the eurozone has been a disaster simply cannot be taken seriously. Look at respective growth figures over past four years. France's highest anticipated growth is still lower than the uks lowest over that period. Says it all

either way with Greece wobbling once again and the fundamental issues not addressed (as far as I can see) along with mounting problems with the Italian banks as well as horrendous levels of unemployment across the regionthen I think it's fair to say the eurozone is something to steer very clear of
 
IDS
Katie Hopkins
Farage
Boris
Piers Morgan (probably)

These retards are all leave proponents. That's all you need to know. Vote remain.
 
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