Grasshopper
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Remain now as big as 1/4, but still 1/6 in a few places.
Brexit
- Thread starter icebreaker
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Remain now as big as 1/4, but still 1/6 in a few places.
Khan gets slammed by the ira supporter for sharing a platform with Cameron.
What a sour dismal bunch the leadership of labour are. Sadiq Khan has again shown he's a proper leader who is not small minded or vindictive (after the dire goldsmith campaign). Roots for what he believes.
Top man
labour finally have someone making a noise about the eu. A disgrace to that party it's taken so long
What a sour dismal bunch the leadership of labour are. Sadiq Khan has again shown he's a proper leader who is not small minded or vindictive (after the dire goldsmith campaign). Roots for what he believes.
Top man
labour finally have someone making a noise about the eu. A disgrace to that party it's taken so long
Deery me, Clivex. To tarnish anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with David Cameron as an "I.R.A supporter" is not only nursery politics but borderline slander.
I say that as someone who doesn't actually think Cameron is as bad as his most extreme political rivals make out. I voted Conservative in 2010 as he was the best of what was on offer, policy wise.
You need to get over this Sinn Fein obsession of yours though.
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simmo
Senior Jockey
Surely the slamming should have been (and was where I saw it) of Cameron for sharing a platform with someone he recently declared to be a "terrorist sympathiser".
Clearly the man has no moral compass.
As I write, 4/11 Remain 2/1 Leave with Stan James and 1/3 9/4 generally
Lots of life in this market yet and the next two weeks+ will be fascinating if probably increasingly sleazy 'n' dirty
S
SlimChance
Guest
Convert your sterling into Euros now and back Leave for a related bet.
icebreaker
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Shrewd. Hadn't thought of that angle.
A serious case of the shits and cold feet from Remainers:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120
So the 'will of the people' would be ignored. This undemocratic baloney just might be the catalyst that moves my stubby pencil from Remain to Leave; and I'd imagine it would do the same to a host of other 'undecideds'
Or is the 'Norway Model' thingy a compromise that would be acceptable after a Brexit to all but the most isolationist Leavers?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36457120
So the 'will of the people' would be ignored. This undemocratic baloney just might be the catalyst that moves my stubby pencil from Remain to Leave; and I'd imagine it would do the same to a host of other 'undecideds'
Or is the 'Norway Model' thingy a compromise that would be acceptable after a Brexit to all but the most isolationist Leavers?
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What is wrong with sharing a platform with the IRA?
moe. This is an appalling view. The ones "without constraints" are the eu. They are NOT elected.
and regardless of that you tell us what you think they are going to implement that is so terrible?
Grasshopper
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Every single one of the Leave talking-heads, at some stage verbally-supported the 'No' campaign during the Scottish Independence Referendum.
Back then, all of them stated that the UK was 'better together'. They argued - rightly in my opinion - that the Yes proposals stood no economic scrutiny; that the risk to jobs was huge, that a recession was almost inevitable, and that budgets were based on most egregious and unsustainable projections. In response, the Yes campaign complained variously of momentum-swings and/or institutional bias, depending on the outcome of the latest poll.
Johnson, Farage, IDS, Grayling and the rest of the Leave vanguard, are now deploying the same tactics as the Yes campaign did in Scotland. Hypocritical? Some might say.
Create a remote and "unrepresentative" bogeyman, and shout down every argument - no matter how coherently it is put - by crying-foul, or using some other convenient method of legerdemain.
That was the sum total extent of the Yes campaign, and is now the essence of the Leave campaign - an empty-vessel appealing to the basest of our instincts, but one which is prepared to threaten all of our futures, because the Cause is more important to them than the Effect on everyone else.
I trust the good judgement of the people of the UK to see through this veneer, and do something which is reflective our UK culture; namely by applying sober analysis and a sense of fair-play, when considering such a momentous question.
Back then, all of them stated that the UK was 'better together'. They argued - rightly in my opinion - that the Yes proposals stood no economic scrutiny; that the risk to jobs was huge, that a recession was almost inevitable, and that budgets were based on most egregious and unsustainable projections. In response, the Yes campaign complained variously of momentum-swings and/or institutional bias, depending on the outcome of the latest poll.
Johnson, Farage, IDS, Grayling and the rest of the Leave vanguard, are now deploying the same tactics as the Yes campaign did in Scotland. Hypocritical? Some might say.
Create a remote and "unrepresentative" bogeyman, and shout down every argument - no matter how coherently it is put - by crying-foul, or using some other convenient method of legerdemain.
That was the sum total extent of the Yes campaign, and is now the essence of the Leave campaign - an empty-vessel appealing to the basest of our instincts, but one which is prepared to threaten all of our futures, because the Cause is more important to them than the Effect on everyone else.
I trust the good judgement of the people of the UK to see through this veneer, and do something which is reflective our UK culture; namely by applying sober analysis and a sense of fair-play, when considering such a momentous question.
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I couldn't have put it better myself Grassy.
I am yet to see one detailed fact based case that presents fundamental advantages for us leaving when compared to the disadvantages. I've seen plenty of hot air, empty propaganda, and what might be's through very heavily rose-tinted spectacles and nothing more.
Despite the stay campaigners overdoing it and exaggerating at times (which applies to both sides), I can't believe that anyone with any interest and an ounce of grey matter sees that neither 'stay' nor 'leave' is a silver bullet, but one offers significantly greater risk to the nations health. Surely on balance 'stay' is clearly better for the UK right now, and probably for the next decade.
Given there's fourteen pages of this now, perhaps someone can make an overwhelming case for leaving, with a list of precisely where we would be better off backed up with actual facts, statistics, and hard financials. Maybe add to that 'who' will be better off and 'why', and 'how'!!!
I am yet to see one detailed fact based case that presents fundamental advantages for us leaving when compared to the disadvantages. I've seen plenty of hot air, empty propaganda, and what might be's through very heavily rose-tinted spectacles and nothing more.
Despite the stay campaigners overdoing it and exaggerating at times (which applies to both sides), I can't believe that anyone with any interest and an ounce of grey matter sees that neither 'stay' nor 'leave' is a silver bullet, but one offers significantly greater risk to the nations health. Surely on balance 'stay' is clearly better for the UK right now, and probably for the next decade.
Given there's fourteen pages of this now, perhaps someone can make an overwhelming case for leaving, with a list of precisely where we would be better off backed up with actual facts, statistics, and hard financials. Maybe add to that 'who' will be better off and 'why', and 'how'!!!
how can the eu be "remote" when it governs over daily lives or seemingly "reigns in" the power of actual elected politicians
as for the "next ten years" that is going to add 2.5m immigrants at current rates. Simply brush that aside shall we? If the eu was not so intent on expanding its powers then I would sit easy but that's simply not the case. Old Europe with its awe of big government will not take the progressive outlook and roll back and delegate powers. its near total failure with shitwen and the euro is a testimony for what we have to look forward to
anyone with "any grey matter" would simply see that the eu and its staff are incompetent. You do not deal with, let alone be governed by, incompetent tossers unless you have to
crucially there is no way of booting them and their two parliaments out so you are left with no option other than to get rid
the only hope is that the eu reforms itself . Fires most of its staff. Shuts down a parliament and sticks to a loose version of its initial intent less the French agricultural policy. Fat chance. A complete free reign with no accountability. No power base voluntarily gives up power and how is it going to forced to do so?
i don't buy the economic figures eitehr way or lists of protest from economists. I was reading the other day that the vast majority of economists polled slammed the Tory reforms in the early eighties. Osbournes figures are a joke and founded on too much supposition
could have told him direct on Saturday. He was coming out of the serpentine gallery with his dog and family. Much bigger bloke than I had assumed and dressed like a tramp
as for the "next ten years" that is going to add 2.5m immigrants at current rates. Simply brush that aside shall we? If the eu was not so intent on expanding its powers then I would sit easy but that's simply not the case. Old Europe with its awe of big government will not take the progressive outlook and roll back and delegate powers. its near total failure with shitwen and the euro is a testimony for what we have to look forward to
anyone with "any grey matter" would simply see that the eu and its staff are incompetent. You do not deal with, let alone be governed by, incompetent tossers unless you have to
crucially there is no way of booting them and their two parliaments out so you are left with no option other than to get rid
the only hope is that the eu reforms itself . Fires most of its staff. Shuts down a parliament and sticks to a loose version of its initial intent less the French agricultural policy. Fat chance. A complete free reign with no accountability. No power base voluntarily gives up power and how is it going to forced to do so?
i don't buy the economic figures eitehr way or lists of protest from economists. I was reading the other day that the vast majority of economists polled slammed the Tory reforms in the early eighties. Osbournes figures are a joke and founded on too much supposition
could have told him direct on Saturday. He was coming out of the serpentine gallery with his dog and family. Much bigger bloke than I had assumed and dressed like a tramp
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Grasshopper
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Ask a Jock who voted for Independence, and you will get your answer.
PS. EU immigration will not add anything like those numbers over ten years. Over half our immigrants are from non-EU countries. It's just more number-speak.
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Really? Net migration from the eu was 184k last year. Over ten years that equates to 1840000 of course but certainly not unreasonable to assume that the rate of migration from the eu will continue to increase given the divergence of the economies
i think between 2m and 2.5m is a pretty good assumption.
i think between 2m and 2.5m is a pretty good assumption.
Grasshopper
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Much more likely that the rate of increase will dissipate, once a greater degree of stability is returned to the Middle-East, and the outflow of refugees reduces....imo.
AliGupter
At the Start
Sorry, stability in the Middle East was that?
Grasshopper
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Insofar as the current refugee crisis is concerned, I would expect it to have improved significantly from the current situation, Ali - yes.
Clearly, the IS threat may not be neutralised fully, nor any of the other ills which befall that part of the planet........but in that timeframe, I think it's reasonable to expect the Syrian Civil War to have reduced in terms of its ferocity, and some degree of normalcy returned. This should reduce the amount of people turning to Europe as refugees, from that part of the world.
Clearly, the IS threat may not be neutralised fully, nor any of the other ills which befall that part of the planet........but in that timeframe, I think it's reasonable to expect the Syrian Civil War to have reduced in terms of its ferocity, and some degree of normalcy returned. This should reduce the amount of people turning to Europe as refugees, from that part of the world.
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Grasshopper
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I concede the point.
But your projection is pure guesswork, based on nothing more than you making-up a number which sounds suitably scary.
But your projection is pure guesswork, based on nothing more than you making-up a number which sounds suitably scary.