Brexit

[Grasshopper]

Ummuna, Benn and the like know that the Party Membership are behind Corbyn, and have therefore concluded that any leadership-attempt is doomed to failure regardless. Why waste the time and the energy mounting a futile campaign?

Defeat basically means that the Membership have aligned themselves to a different value-system than those held by the politicians you mention (plus tens of others, no doubt). There would be no future for these individuals in Corbyn's Labour Party, and the only options open to them would either be to create a new Party, or join an existing one they feel they can align to........or leave politics altogether. The way things look, the Labour Party as we have known it for the last 25 years, is beyond saving, and once this vote is over, it will become an even greater howl-at-the-moon irrelevance, than it is now.

 

[EC1]

Ummuna, Benn and the like know that the Party Membership are behind Corbyn, and have therefore concluded that any leadership-attempt is doomed to failure regardless. Why waste the time and the energy mounting a futile campaign?

Defeat basically means that the Membership have aligned themselves to a different value-system than those held by the politicians you mention (plus tens of others, no doubt). There would be no future for these individuals in Corbyn's Labour Party, and the only options open to them would either be to create a new Party, or join an existing one they feel they can align to........or leave politics altogether. The way things look, the Labour Party as we have known it for the last 25 years, is beyond saving, and once this vote is over, it will become an even greater howl-at-the-moon irrelevance, than it is now.

that doesn't explain why they held back last time though.

and if they have that "beaten before we start" attitude..what good are they in any party?..they just pussies imo..not sure why you are defending it tbh..they have let themselves and labour down by not standing...and should be ashamed of themselves expecting lesser lights go over the top in front of them..just cowardly

what makes me laugh is that they keep the same method of picking the leader as the last disaster..surely anyone who didn't like corbyn getting it should have been fighting to change how the leader is picked..because under the present method..corbyn is it until he drops dead

i have voted labour all my life..but i'll never vote for them again until i see someone with steel take hold of the mess it is now..though that seems highly unlikely..because those that are apparantly heavy weights..have no balls whatsover..lightweights all of them..and thats a shame..i don't understand Benn not standing. What difference does it make if Benn lost to corbyn..at least it would tell the general electorate that someone of prominence was remotely interested in sorting out the great unwashed takeover of the party.

Its not about whether you can beat corbyn..its about showing you care about what is happening to your party..you show that by standing for the leader job. All that the casual viewer of politics see is a bunch of spineless politicians letting their party get trashed and letting light weights try and fight their battles for them...a poor message to send out.

 

[Grasshopper]

Last time, there were better/more credible candidates in Burnham and Cooper, which would explain why Ben and Umunna didn't stand.

I'm not defending anything. I don't have any allegiance to any Party - I'm just despairing at how Labour has progressively gone into the toilet over the last few years; something that has gone at warp-speed since Corbyn took over.

I'm a member at Cheltenham. If it was bought-over by a nefarious clique of badly-attired, goggle-specs, dandruff-spattered Flatties who proposed running Flat races there, I'd be up in arms. If it became clear to me that this was a progressive move to an all-Flat agenda, I would simply declare myself uninterested, and sign-up somewhere else.

This is essentially the choice that is now faced by "lifelong Labour voters". The party has been hijacked, and it's time to choose whether it is something you still want to be a part of.

 

[EC1]

Last time, there were better/more credible candidates in Burnham and Cooper, which would explain why Ben and Umunna didn't stand.

I'm not defending anything. I don't have any allegiance to any Party - I'm just despairing at how Labour has progressively gone into the toilet over the last few years; something that has gone at warp-speed since Corbyn took over.

I'm a member at Cheltenham. If it was bought-over by a nefarious clique of badly-attired, goggle-specs, dandruff-spattered Flatties who proposed running Flat races there, I'd be up in arms. If it became clear to me that this was a progressive move to an all-Flat agenda, I would simply declare myself uninterested, and sign-up somewhere else.

This is essentially the choice that is now faced by "lifelong Labour voters". The party has been hijacked, and it's time to choose whether it is something you still want to be a part of.

i agree with that Grass

its this apathy to do anything about this that just makes me angry..wtf are they doing letting someone like Smith take him on?..pointless..they deserve everything coming to them imo..they seem to not be able to make a decision about anything and strike out..thats both the corbyn factor and the none corbyn factor

all i hear is..oh well we will go away and talk about it for a few months then make a decision..fookin tories just get on with it..and that is the difference..rightly or wrongly the tories give the impression they know what they are doing..labour just gives out a message of complete incomptence ..along with the air of soft arsed fookers that will let anybody just walk in and take us over...they don't inspire confidence....and the fact they have a joke of a leadership election that lets people who have a minority view of society take them over... not once..but bloody twice...why hasn't there been a change made to the way they choose a leader?...just adds to the image of a completely unelectable collection of weak willed out of date fools.

I'm staggered that people will support someone who can't even form an opposition bench...just to keep the idiot they think is the messiah..the left don't want power..they just want what they want..and its nowt to do with changing things for ordinary people..its a pretence just to have hold of the reins...and labour with its barmy leadership process has let them take over.

 

[clivex]

That's it essentially

And the result will also be a further shift towards the left or more accurately towards their hate filled echo chamber.

Corbyn labour could easily be down to 20 seats in a couple of elections time. Second rate student dumps,' wife beating religious havens and North London wnkrs hideouts

 

[EC1]

but that 20 seats is 20 taken from "labour" or whatever they will be called if anyone does decide to break away...neither corbyn nor.."new new labour" will ever see power..all he has done is make sure the tories will rule forever probably...that to me shows he doesn't really believe what he says...he just wants to be.."the man"..anyone with a brain or not totally self absorbed wouldn't even have stood in this leadership election..he is a self centred individual with a watered down Bennite agenda..he isn't original..unless you are about 20 year old with no knowledeg of political history....he hasn't invented a new kind of politics..he is a fake..but gets away with it playing to the ignorance and impressionability of the dicks that keep voting for him

 

[clivex]

this is what he's really all about

At the end of the day its become a quasi personality cult (not that he has one) which has always been a feature of the far left. People on that political wing are usually life losers who need a Glorious Leader to make up their simple minds for them


With his permanently-in-crisis leadership now facing a challenge and with Theresa May being crowned Tory leader and prime minister, Jeremy Corbyn went to address the Cuba Solidarity Campaign.
Instead of rallying to defend himself against Angela Eagle’s challenge, Corbyn went to the event in the House of Commons hosted by the group and posted it to his snapchat.
The Cuba Solidarity Campaign is a movement whose stated aim is to defend the “Cuban people’s right to be free from foreign intervention”.
This is unlikely to be a major issue to British voters at the next General Election, which may now come earlier than 2020.
Since unexpectedly becoming Labour leader, the career backbench MP has maintained his links to relatively obscure Left Wing causes.
Corbyn made no statement about May becoming prime minister and has missed Monday evening’s Parliamentary Labour Party meeting.
He surprised even Westminster’s keenest observers by attending the Cuba event on a day of political chaos and change.

 

[EC1]

this is what he's really all about

At the end of the day its become a quasi personality cult (not that he has one) which has always been a feature of the far left. People on that political wing are usually life losers who need a Glorious Leader to make up their simple minds for them


With his permanently-in-crisis leadership now facing a challenge and with Theresa May being crowned Tory leader and prime minister, Jeremy Corbyn went to address the Cuba Solidarity Campaign.
Instead of rallying to defend himself against Angela Eagle’s challenge, Corbyn went to the event in the House of Commons hosted by the group and posted it to his snapchat.
The Cuba Solidarity Campaign is a movement whose stated aim is to defend the “Cuban people’s right to be free from foreign intervention”.
This is unlikely to be a major issue to British voters at the next General Election, which may now come earlier than 2020.
Since unexpectedly becoming Labour leader, the career backbench MP has maintained his links to relatively obscure Left Wing causes.
Corbyn made no statement about May becoming prime minister and has missed Monday evening’s Parliamentary Labour Party meeting.
He surprised even Westminster’s keenest observers by attending the Cuba event on a day of political chaos and change.

and such as the above is the issue isn't it?..its a bit like someone..lets say a doctor..who instead of doing his job everyday goes busking..then wonders why he gets stick from his patients....corbyn would answer that by saying..i know but i passed all my exams..got a large mandate...yes you did Jez..but in the last 12 months..you haven't doctored one fookin person..so you're fired

does anyone know one person who got a job..failed completely at it..and wasn't sacked for being absolutely useless at it

only in poilitcs is such a failure allowed to appeal by standing again for the same job he is shite at..and there are divs who will want him to keep it..it defies any logic..but then again..leftie world does.

 

[clivex]

Angela Eagle, the Labour MP who challenged Mr Corbyn for the leadership, has been told by police to stop holding open surgeries with her constituents over concerns for her safety.
The former shadow business secretary was told by Merseyside Police instead to get constituents to make an appointment if they wanted to see her.
It comes after a man was arrested for threatening to kill Ms Eagle and her local party was suspended amid allegations of bullying.

​

All Labour MP will be forced to get reselected by their local party before the new general election, Jeremy Corbyn has said, in a move that could effectively allow the Labour leader to sack some of his most prominent critics.
The Labour leader said after the boundary review concludes in 2018 there will be a “full selection process in every constituency” to see who stands for Parliament.

​

 

[EC1]

​

All Labour MP will be forced to get reselected by their local party before the new general election, Jeremy Corbyn has said, in a move that could effectively allow the Labour leader to sack some of his most prominent critics.
The Labour leader said after the boundary review concludes in 2018 there will be a “full selection process in every constituency” to see who stands for Parliament.

​

i wonder how shrewd the 4 amigos are feeling now

 

[simmo]

Can someone explain to what the relevance of Corbyn's first question was at PMQs yesterday? (on Orgreave) Surely he didn't effectively use his first question on a new PM just to curry favour with union bosses as the new leader election begins?

It is as relevant as the Hillsborough enquiry was to the victims there. Justice is needed in the case of Orgreave.

It also served as a reminder that despite all that she is saying, Theresa May is as much interested in social injustice as any other right wing fascist.

for those who don't know - Orgreave was where the police marshalled striking miners into an enclosed area then attacked them without provocation. The BBC then portrayed the event as having been started by the miners with the police attacking in response. They later admitted that the sequence of events was not as they had displayed it, but have never apologised for it.

Incidentally, the same coppers who were involved in trying to blame the Hillsborough disaster on scousers were in charge at Orgreave.

This is an interesting read for anyone bothered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Orgreave

 

[clivex]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ConorMcGinn/status/756243177896632321

 

[Grasshopper]

It is as relevant as the Hillsborough enquiry was to the victims there.

The fight for justice is legit, but nobody died at Orgreave, and it simply isn't of the same scale of importance - nowhere near, in fact.

Corbyn using this as his opening-gambit a new Prime Minister's first PMQs, speaks volumes. He is more interested in his pet-projects, than being Leader of the Opposition.

 

[simmo]

The fight for justice is legit, but nobody died at Orgreave, and it simply isn't of the same scale of importance - nowhere near, in fact.

Corbyn using this as his opening-gambit a new Prime Minister's first PMQs, speaks volumes. He is more interested in his pet-projects, than being Leader of the Opposition.

The purpose of mentioning it was because of May's recent cries for social justice which are at odds with her actions as Home Secretary to delay holding an inquiry into it. Something which is continuing under the new Home Secretary. It was exactly the sort of question that the leader of the opposition should be asking. There is plenty of other ammo to fire at Corbyn, this isn't it.

 

[clivex]

You have brexit, nice , turkey and some of the biggest political and economic changes for decades and the first thing on his mind is some strike from 30 years ago

if it had been any other leader, such peculiar obsession would have been headline news but the dismal standards of this simpleton are more or less routine now

 

[Grasshopper]

Simmo, almost every Public Inquiry in the last 30-40 years, has involved death of some description; through accident, negligence or felonious deed.

Orgreave doesn't even come close to meeting the standard entry-criteria, no matter how much Corbyn bleats on about it. If I can figure this out, he should be able to do so too. The question was a complete waste of time; reflecting Corbyn's utter ineptitude in the role of HMs Leader of the Opposition, because he cares more about his precious hobby-horses, than he does about genuinely holding the Government to account.

 

[Hamm]

The purpose of mentioning it was because of May's recent cries for social justice which are at odds with her actions as Home Secretary to delay holding an inquiry into it. Something which is continuing under the new Home Secretary. It was exactly the sort of question that the leader of the opposition should be asking. There is plenty of other ammo to fire at Corbyn, this isn't it.

Simmo, it may have been wrong, the police at their worst etc, but it's not even a footnote in history and what in God's name has it got to do with Theresa May or the electorate of today? It's simply not an important issue with how the country is now, and it sums up Corbyn pretty neatly. He is the perfect protest politician and is interested in nothing more.

 

[Hamm]

You have brexit, nice , turkey and some of the biggest political and economic changes for decades and the first thing on his mind is some strike from 30 years ago

if it had been any other leader, such peculiar obsession would have been headline news but the dismal standards of this simpleton are more or less routine now

Exactly. Inequality would have been something much more appropriate from a labour leader (and it would be relevant) but he instead prefers to show the unions he is still in line with them.

I don't care if Corbyn, McDonell etc are lunatics but what is worrying is the amount of people (ever increasing) that still vote for Corbyn..

 

[clivex]

It completely rebounds too. Not that he would understand that

anyone watching would surely think "is that labours biggest concern? Their biggest issue with the government?"

and if so... Well they can't be doing a bad job then can they?

 

[clivex]

Actually voting within party you mean Hamm. Polls are sliding all the time. His personal rating is the worst ever of any leader. They will continue to do so regardless of outcome. It can take some time for voters to shift their allegiances.

 

[clivex]

Simmo, almost every Public Inquiry in the last 30-40 years, has involved death of some description; through accident, negligence or felonious deed.

Orgreave doesn't even come close to meeting the standard entry-criteria, no matter how much Corbyn bleats on about it. If I can figure this out, he should be able to do so too. The question was a complete waste of time; reflecting Corbyn's utter ineptitude in the role of HMs Leader of the Opposition, because he cares more about his precious hobby-horses, than he does about genuinely holding the Government to account.

its a comfort zone too. He can't step out of it. He's thick.

 

[Drone]

I don't care if Corbyn, McDonell etc are lunatics but what is worrying is the amount of people (ever increasing) that still vote for Corbyn..

The amount of people who - or who will - vote for Corbyn are I'd proffer a very small percentage of the electorate. But this miniscule percentage wield a huge and wholly disproportionate amount of power as they've made a concerted and collaborative effort to join the Labour Party in order to vote for Corbyn as leader. This, as I mentioned previously, is due to the change in voting procedure that now gives the lay membership carte blanche to vote in who they like, with the parliamentary party neutered

I've long thought that those individuals of any political persuasion who join a political party are odd and somewhat menacing anyway. Dogmatic alignment is unhealthy and counter-productive, flexible non-alignment healthy and productive

Corbyn is just another blinkered ideologue for whom pragmatism and consensus are alien words. A would-be dictator dressed-up as a democrat

 

[Grasshopper]

I've long thought that those individuals of any political persuasion who join a political party are odd and somewhat menacing anyway. Dogmatic alignment is unhealthy and counter-productive, flexible non-alignment healthy and productive.

Bingo.

 

[Desert Orchid]

I've long thought that those individuals of any political persuasion who join a political party are odd and somewhat menacing anyway.

That's a very narrow viewpoint, I'd suggest.

I know a number of members of the Labour Party (I'm not one) within my own family and they are far from odd and menacing. Quite the opposite. They joined because they can see this country going to hell in a handcart under the tories (UK) and the SNP (Scotland).

They don't necessarily rate Dugface or any of the Labour people up here and they are very much anti-Corbyn but felt they've more chance of changing the party from within. They accept it will be a long game.

 

[Grasshopper]

Economists are today predicting a 0.4% contraction in the economy in 3Q2016, based on the first set of post-Referendum economic figures, and the Purchasing Manager's Index is at its lowest-level since the height of the 2008-2009 crash. The general outlook is that we are heading for a recession.

Is this the first evidence of a genuinely material, post-Brexit impact to the economy? Or is it fear-mongering?