Britain ruled by banks? (Discuss)

Frankly Grey you stated that criticism of Frances (and fair play to them in some respects) huge lobbying for and selfish exploitation of the CAP which led to disaterous wasteful results was nothing more than

"blind prejudice"

It happened but it simply "prejudice" to point out that (and this ive never seen this contradicted anywhere) they were acting with huge self interest at a cost to other member states

Frankly that is "shrill"
 
It is pointless to continue. You are reformulating things you said yourself and inventing things I'm supposed to have said, and I think you're intelligent enough to know that's what you're doing.
 
Sorry missed out on this passionate debate but .....

Following the rant from Dalia Grybauskaitė on Friday about UK and 'our Dave', I would have loved to see the 'Sun' headline:

Lith - who - ania?​

I'm not a fan of Dave or the current set of politicians of either side, but for some two bit leader who supported the treaty change simply to ease their membership of the EU to mouth off was disgraceful.

As was the public snub of Dave by Shitcozy when they took their seats.

Not usually this forthright about politics but I was incensed.

MR2
 
Question.

Aren't there nine other European Parliaments out there, who have still to vote on and ratify this treaty?

Would Britain be subject to as much "isolation" if, say, one of the Scandic governments was defeated in a vote or referendum.

Apart from forever topping themselves due to the biting wind and total lack of statuesque, blonde Manto knocking about (arses), the Swedes, Norwegians and Danes are largely defined as thoroughgoing, top-notch proto-Euros, with an impeccable track-record in turning-out slamming hotties on a reguilar basis.

Where their track record is a little less straightforward, is in their subservience to a greater Europe.

All of these countries have consistently refused to join the Euro, and over time have flexed their muscles over treaties such as Maastricht. I don't think the votes in these Parliaments are by any means a foregone conclusion, and it is not beyond the realms that one or more may choose to reject the proposals.

What then?

Grey, would you reserve the same (mild) vitriol for a Scandic country which chose not to participate?

Genuine question. :cool:
 
Grey said:
If the writer is prepared to go back that far he might as well have mentioned Agincourt and the Field of The Cloth of Gold.

Seriously, perceptions in the UK about the CAP are out of date by at least ten years but this guy's are even more outdated. Export refunds have almost finished, there are no wine lakes or butter mountains, the incentives to maximise production at the expense of the environment have been removed, and the bulk of the money now goes directly into the pockets of farmers rather than being used to subsidise agro-industry. And the rules are the same for every Member State, as they always have been.

VVO, I work in Brussels as a pen pusher in the European Commission, auditing CAP expenditure, but the views I express here are entirely my own. I am no mouthpiece for Barroso, who is another joyless neoliberal. And as for Van Rompuy, I don't know any more more about him than most of us on here, in other words nothing.
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Your views are unbalanced & unreasonable, I've come to realise.

What a waste!
 
Norway hasnt even bothered to join the eu. Mind you they are minted and dont give a monkeys

It might well be with the scandinavians that it is not in nature to rock the boat (unlike our ot who love it really) but when push comes to shove...

The Finns have got the hump about joining the euro too
 
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Fins and humps? Are we talking about Wales?

Grey, I thought that the EU was still subsidising the farming industry to the tune of several billion quid, n'est pas? There are certainly farming subsidies in the UK. Unfortunately, I've just given away the organ in which I read a shortish article on this issue, so can't refer back for the all-important source, which Gareth will challenge me for, or the author. Help!
 
Wales shouldnt be in the eu. It is a third world country that doesnt even have any coal anymore so has nothing to offer except leeks. they piss everyone off with all that singing too
 
krizon said:
Grey, I thought that the EU was still subsidising the farming industry to the tune of several billion quid, n'est pas? There are certainly farming subsidies in the UK.
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Yes it is, Kriz, big time. To the tune of about €45bn per year, still approaching half the entire EU budget. The difference now, though, is that most of it is paid directly to farmers, in the form of the so-called single payment. The subsidies you mention are paid for by the EU, but I don't blame anyone for not being aware of it. You could watch Countryfile for ten years and not know this.

By the way, clivex, the Finns are already in the eurozone.
 
I know. I meant had joined. Pretty well aware having dealt with trades there recently
 
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Thanks, Grey - you know us old wimminfolk, can't even remember whether we've had our Complan or not, so I wasn't too sure of the figure I'd seen, which I thought was £40 billion, but then thought, NO, maybe it was 'just' £4 billion. Thanks for clearing that up. You're absolutely right about farming programmes for the general public - I'm sure the one which Songsheet visits on matters bovine has all the right info, but not the 'isn't the countryside lurvely?' ones!
 
A degree of dissention is kicking-up amongst several of the 26, if tonight's news is anything to go by. Some countries within the Eurozone might not even sign up to this arrangement.

Which - should it come to pass - would rather expose the calls of UK "isolation" as bollocks.

Wouldn't it?
 
Grasshopper said:
A degree of dissention is kicking-up amongst several of the 26, if tonight's news is anything to go by. Some countries within the Eurozone might not even sign up to this arrangement.

Which - should it come to pass - would rather expose the calls of UK "isolation" as bollocks.

Wouldn't it?
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Either that or it would expose Cameron's tactics the other day as over the top.
 
Well at weekend there was talk that the netherlands being less than happy with being left on sidelines a bit.

I must admit the squabbling is going to be fun to watch. This has a long way to go but a real possibility is the complete collapse. Effectively they are now trying to put in place what should have been there from the beginning. But the stalls have opened, the horses have run into the first fence and the starter cant get them back.

Its going to be like herding cats

And if it does work just wait til they tell the irish that they have to stick corporation tax up to 40% or whatever, the italians to actually fill out tax returns and the spanish that fags will be £6 a packet now
 
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Grey said:
Either that or it would expose Cameron's tactics the other day as over the top.
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You presumably mean "having some balls" when you say "over the top"?

If other countries object and this deal falls apart, anyone who suggests Cameron called it wrong has their head in the sand. Cameron's actual rating would lie somewhere between 'very shrewd' and 'expertly played'.

He will not only have appeased those on the right of his party, but the LibDems can also demonstrate to their own Euro-centric wing that the deal was a dud, and that they made the right call.

Politically, it's all upside domestically, but more important in my view is the fact that he has shown some backbone and not sleep-walked us into a bad deal.

Blair and Brown would have minced right into line.
 
Is it not right that the main gripe was the FFT tax and maybe I am wrong but are tax policies in Europe not subject to the unanimity rule and if so why did DC use his veto when he could have just blocked it?
 
I think you're wrong about Blair and Brown. Neither of them are favourites of mine, but they were very effective in Europe. They got everything they wanted, including a strong grip on its foreign policy, enlargement, free movement of capital and an opt-out from the euro without any acrimony. The UK has had more influence in the EU than any other Member State in the last twenty years.
 
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I retract the comment, which is largely an irrelevance to the wider point I was trying to get across.......as if you can't figure that out for yourself, Grey. :)

Let's say the Dutch decide to throw it out. Would you consider this more a decision based on rational assessment or one of assertive anti-Europeanism?
 
I haven't been able to find the story on any of the main newspaper sites, Grassy, so I can't comment.

But there's no doubt there will be tough negotiations ahead, and lots of posturing, among the 26 before the details of the 'fiscal compact' are agreed. They've given themselves until March to get there, but they probably won't until the last minute. Every Member State has concerns of its own which they will now be seeking to have addressed.

Cameron could have been in there pitching with the rest of them.
 
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