Champion Hurdle 2013

tend to agree with you grasshopper hardy eustace was never given enough credit for his wins

does anyone recall who was rooster boosters original trainer
 
Grasshopper said:
I think this doesn't give enough credit to Conor O'Dwyer for a masterful ride on Hardy Eustace
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This is spot on..and it can be backed up;)

even pace sectionals = 86.0/109.9/130.3/165.6/183.2

Hardy Eustace sectionals = 85.0/109.6/129.8/165.4/183.1

by the 4th hurdle he was spot on pace after asking a bit of extra early out of them...then applied a bit more pressure up to the 5th..then ran perfect even time to the last..the extra he gave early on was countered by his stamina kicking in after the last..those with speed had it eeked out of them bit by bit. One of the great rides in the CH. Not a dissimilar type of pace scenario to ROR's win..solid sectionals and extra found after the last.. a speed horse won't like that type of pace.

Rooster Booster faced a better horse in Hardy than he ever faced the year before..his main rival the year before was ridden way too hard to halfway which left RB to coast home past a completely knackered rival which exaggerated his actual superiority. Intersky was ridden differently in this race and his proximity to RB was 4 lengths compared to 18 lengths when RB won. IF was a good horse to only be beaten by 18 lengths in 2003..he really should have been beaten 40+ after his initial exertions.
 
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EC1 said:
Rooster Booster faced a better horse in Hardy than he ever faced the year before..his main rival the year before was ridden way too hard to halfway which left RB to coast home past a completely knackered rival which exaggerated his actual superiority. Intersky was ridden differently in this race and his proximity to RB was 4 lengths compared to 18 lengths when RB won. IF was a good horse to only be beaten by 18 lengths in 2003..he really should have been beaten 40+ after his initial exertions.
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totally agree IF made the race for RB in 2003
 
Grasshopper said:
I think this doesn't give enough credit to Conor O'Dwyer for a masterful ride on Hardy Eustace, or the horse himself, who was clearly capable of high-class form at the track, any way I look at it.

As for whether Rooster Booster was "bottomed" in the Tote Gold Trophy, I have my doubts. He had run in plenty of very competitive handicaps before that Champion Hurdle, and none of them put a mark on the horse. The fact is, Hardy won from a brilliant front-running ride, and Rooster Booster didn't have the race run particularly to suit. It's also my opinion that there was a little bit of the "not today, thank you" about RB's performance (and I say that as someone who loves the horse).

My memory of that TGT effort was that it had put him spot-on for the Festival - not that he'd left the Champion Hurdle behind in it.
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Having made a small fortune on RB in 2003, I was into it again, but not as heavily, in 2004. In the TGT, Johnson held the horse up off a relatively moderate pace - for the race - before making his ground very quickly as they turned for home, just as nearly all the field was quickening. It was awful timing. He got the horse to the front but was under severe pressure to stay there, having used up a ridiculous amount of energy too early in the straight, and was mugged on the line by Geos. I was f*cking raging that day - even though Lord H paid me on my bet with him for the CH as I knew deep down the race would leave its mark (one of the reasons I jumped at Lord H's offer to settle early at reduced odds). The horse was never the same again.
 
RB was 9 when he won the Champion- the TGT may wellhave hadan impact as did the deliberately moderate pace set by horses against him - as off a good gallop he was brilliant . I still feel he was on the decline and he was dazzling throughout 2003-2004 and would have sailed past Hardy Eustace in that form.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Having made a small fortune on RB in 2003, I was into it again, but not as heavily, in 2004. In the TGT, Johnson held the horse up off a relatively moderate pace - for the race - before making his ground very quickly as they turned for home, just as nearly all the field was quickening. It was awful timing. He got the horse to the front but was under severe pressure to stay there, having used up a ridiculous amount of energy too early in the straight, and was mugged on the line by Geos. I was f*cking raging that day - even though Lord H paid me on my bet with him for the CH as I knew deep down the race would leave its mark (one of the reasons I jumped at Lord H's offer to settle early at reduced odds). The horse was never the same again.
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Are you being serious?

RB was held up in every race - it was the only way to ride him. He was mugged on the line due to the not entirely insignificant matter of him conceding the best part of two stone to Geos - it had nothing to do wih using "a ridiculous amount of energy". RB hit the front in his customary style and was chinned by a decent horse carting a featherweight - it's that simple.

If anything caused RB's decline, it was a combination of age and fearless campaigning over 5-6 seasons. It's arrant nonsense that this particular TGT emptied him and left him "never the same horse again". He finished second in a Champion Hurdle in his next race, FFS.
 
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Rooster was second in the Champion and underperformed by more than a stone
running to Newbury form would have won in MArch in a canter
 
Grasshopper said:
Are you being serious?

RB was held up in every race - it was the only way to ride him. He was mugged on the line due to the not entirely insignificant matter of him conceding the best part of two stone to Geos - it had nothing to do wih using "a ridiculous amount of energy". RB hit the front in his customary style and was chinned by a decent horse carting a featherweight - it's that simple.

If anything caused RB's decline, it was a combination of age and fearless campaigning over 5-6 seasons. It's arrant nonsense that this particular TGT emptied him and left him "never the same horse again". He finished second in a Champion Hurdle in his next race, FFS.
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Yes, perfecty serious.

Yes, he was a hold-up horse.

My contention is that he would have won the race very comfortably - and very probably the CH as well - under a more judicious ride. I thought Johnson panicked when he realised they were all quickening in front of him and the horse scythed through the field to dispute the lead going to the last but was then all out. I shudder to think what time he must have clocked over the last five furlongs.
 
Fair enough, DO.

It's a harsh view to take, imo. Johnson delivered RB more or less perfectly, and was under no more pressure than normal to do so i.e. RB looked no harder a ride than he always did, on my viewing of the race.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

In a fit of New Year hopeless optimism, I've backed Solwhit for the Champion Hurdle at 220/44 Win and Place (stakes obviously small).

I obviously need him to come back to his best (probably unlikely) but a strong pace will suit, and it's just possible that the Festival could start on genuinely soft ground, which would also suit. Price obviously reflects the haymaker nature of the bet, but he had undoubted class before his injury, and seems about the only genuine outer who might develop into a springer.
 
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Ardross said:
RB was 9 when he won the Champion- the TGT may wellhave hadan impact as did the deliberately moderate pace set by horses against him - as off a good gallop he was brilliant . I still feel he was on the decline and he was dazzling throughout 2003-2004 and would have sailed past Hardy Eustace in that form.
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I like to call them the Handicap Years because as far as I am concerned that's all they were a bunch of good handicapper filling in the years until the best hurdler never to win a Champion Hurdle came along namely Sizing Europe.

After Istabraq we hit the worst lull in hurdling in history and it hit rock bottom when a non stayer in the shape of Sublimity ran passed an ageing and totally knackered duo in Hardy Eustace and Brave Inca.

I have watched every champion hurdle dozens of times......Brilliant Champions like Persian War Bula Salmon Spray Night Nurse Sea Pigeon Comedy of Errors Lanzarote Kribensis Gay Brief Dawn Run Monksfiled Binocular and Hurricane Fly all oozed class on their day.........Rooster friggin Booster and co......... I'd rather watch paint dry
 
Tanlic said:
I like to call them the Handicap Years because as far as I am concerned that's all they were a bunch of good handicapper filling in the years until the best hurdler never to win a Champion Hurdle came along namely Sizing Europe.

After Istabraq we hit the worst lull in hurdling in history and it hit rock bottom when a non stayer in the shape of Sublimity ran passed an ageing and totally knackered duo in Hardy Eustace and Brave Inca.

I have watched every champion hurdle dozens of times......Brilliant Champions like Persian War Bula Salmon Spray Night Nurse Sea Pigeon Comedy of Errors Lanzarote Kribensis Gay Brief Dawn Run Monksfiled Binocular and Hurricane Fly all oozed class on their day.........Rooster friggin Booster and co......... I'd rather watch paint dry
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Rooster Booster was a proper champion, Tanlic, and arguably remains the best post- Istabraq 2m hurdler. He was much superior to Binocular, whose Champion Hurdle has been exposed as an empty vessel by every participant in their subsequent outings.

Easy with the egg-nogg. ;)

:D
 
Ardross said:
The RB of the 2003 CH would have beaten 9 out of 10 Champion Hurdlers.
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It would have to be a hand-picked nine ;)... He won 10 of his 44 starts over timber and one of the three Champion Hurdles he attempted, finishing behind Hardy Eustace twice. He no doubt ran his best race in winning the Champion in 2003. He earned a top OR of 170 and a top RPR of 173 and a Timeform mark of 169, making him decent. The bulk of his winning form was between 150 and mid 160s. A Champion Hurdle winner in the band 167-172 is rated only Average (in terms of other Champion Hurdle winners) of six categories of Greatest, Great, Superior, Average, Inferior and Poor. His 2003 win would just squeak in to the Superior category in terms of his RPR, but the level of his other performances were Average to Inferior, judged by Champion Hurdle winning standards.
 
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Rooster Booster was a very good handicapper. The horses he beat on his run up to and in the Champion Hurdle lost about 40 races between them around being beaten by him. Westender Landing Light a mule of Jonjos and some Emma lavelle horse I can't remember the name of. Even when he ran 2nd to Geos he hadn't won for yonks and never won again.

He had a 170 rating is a joke by today's standards......Horses like Hurricane Fly Zarkandar, Grandouet, Simonsig and even Darlan would have eatenhim alive.

You got a very weird Idea about what makes a Champion Hurdler....In 20 years those still alive and old enough to remember will still talk about Persian War Bula Monksfield Sea Pigeon Istabraq and Hurricane Fly etc no onw will even remember Rooster Booster who was a flash in the pan in a poor era who couldn't even hold a candle to those that followed and they weren't that good either.

You wanna talk about a good Champion at least pick something Like Comedy of Errors or Night Nurse who kept doing it for seasons not for a few months.

Wish I had some egg nog might help me work out the 9 Champion Hurdles Adross is talking about....gimme a clue mate were they Welsh or Scottish Champion Hurdle because as sure as God made little green apples they weren't run at Cheltenham
 
Tanlic said:
He had a 170 rating is a joke by today's standards......Horses like Hurricane Fly Zarkandar, Grandouet, Simonsig and even Darlan would have eatenhim alive.
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I'd say he earned his 170+ rating for the 2003 Champion, but this was significantly above the bulk of his form. However, even on his 2003 Champion performance he still only rates as an Average to Superior winner of that race (see above). So I'd have to go against the assertion that he would have beaten nine out of 10 Champion Hurdle winners.
 
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He would have beaten Sublimity and that's about it IMO......Even Rhinestone Cowboy might have beat Sublimity and Jonjo said of him prior to the 2003 running if he wins it will need to be the worst in the races history...He thought he was so ordinary by his standard (Sea Pigeon Dawn Run etc) they should run him in another race at the festival. He was also going to have Liam Cooper hold up Intersky Falcon but didn't think that highly of him either and ended up telling him to try and run them into the ground.......he ran himself into the ground instead and he went such a pace those closest behind were legless by 3 out. RC ran as good as expected and when AP'smount fell that left RB with nothing to beat but a 33/1 Martin Pipe outsider there wasn't 20p for.........Good CH my giddy Aunt. Dreadful renewal if ever there was one.
 
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The finish of 2003 CH was deceptive on the eye as the pace collapsed and just those that had been well off it early plodded through..RB plodded faster than the others...many people think he was very superior on the day when in fact it was exaggerated....Westender would have been a 155 max horse at the time and was reluctant to even start but was only beaten 11 lengths..makes RB a 166 horse...Self Defence [100/1] a 150 ish horse at that time jumped poorly and was beaten 15 lengths..makes RB a 165 horse

the year after..Self Defence was beaten 26 lengths by Hardy Eustace...i'll leave it with you ;)
 
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The list of winning horses running to 170 or better in the Champion Hurdle since 1990 include: Rock On Ruby, Binocular, Sublimity, Brave Inca, Hardy Eustace, Rooster Booster, Istabraq (three times), Collier Bay, Alderbrook, Morley Street and Kribensis.

If we go back further to since 1949 we can add (best rated down, rough order): Night Nurse (twice), Sir Ken (three times), Persian War (three times), Bula (twice), Comedy of Errors (twice), Lanzarote, Monksfield (twice), Hatton’s Grace (three times), Magic Court, Salmon Spray, Sea Pigeon (twice), Gaye Brief, Dawn Run, See You Then (three times). [All 173 to 182 performances.]

All of the above mentioned ran to better than 170 on at least one of OR, RPR or Timeform (all three not available for all horses mentioned). All of these would have been at least as good as RB, as he gets in near the bottom of this list. This bears out Tanlic's reasoning that he would have beaten Sublimity (170), but only a few of the others listed (and that's assuming RB's best ever performance).
 
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