Champion Hurdle 2015
- Thread starter granger
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granger
Senior Jockey
Keeping up with Faugheen when he starts going up the gears is when TNO will struggle
granger
Senior Jockey
fair shout that. If my aunt had balls....
Grasshopper
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OK, it's not an exact parallel, but Un De Sceaux was hammering similar horses out-of-sight last season......and was beaten the first time he met a horse he was unable to dominate (Gemix). I am in no way doubting Faugheen's credentials as a Champion Hurdle candidate, but like UDS, he has met nothing approaching CH class (my view) to date, and will experience a wholly-different level of challenge in the Champion Hurdle, compared to what he faced at Kempton.
The yard are no mugs, and given they were happy to send Vautour over fences, clearly knew what they had on their hands. He is dispatching handicappers with the type of authority you would expect of a Champion Hurdler.........but like so many before him, he has yet to face his final exams, and it is inappropriate for people to speak of him as if he has already passed them, and his current Champion Hurdle price - compared to previous 'Great Bay Hopes' with similar profiles - is frankly a joke.
Jezki and TNO are being made-out as if they're no better than Sublimity or Hors La Loi III, and that is assuredly not the case. Faugheen will need to be every bit as good as some are making-out, because this Chanmpion Hurdle will take a fair amount of winning. It may not be numerically-strong on realistic challengers, but those that do fit the bill are top-end horses - no mistake.
The yard are no mugs, and given they were happy to send Vautour over fences, clearly knew what they had on their hands. He is dispatching handicappers with the type of authority you would expect of a Champion Hurdler.........but like so many before him, he has yet to face his final exams, and it is inappropriate for people to speak of him as if he has already passed them, and his current Champion Hurdle price - compared to previous 'Great Bay Hopes' with similar profiles - is frankly a joke.
Jezki and TNO are being made-out as if they're no better than Sublimity or Hors La Loi III, and that is assuredly not the case. Faugheen will need to be every bit as good as some are making-out, because this Chanmpion Hurdle will take a fair amount of winning. It may not be numerically-strong on realistic challengers, but those that do fit the bill are top-end horses - no mistake.
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Desert Orchid
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It's all a question of context. If the same lot turn up as last year it might not take that much winning since not many of the last half-dozen have taken much winning. They've been close-run affairs for the most part because they've been much of a muchness. This Faugheen chappie might be a whole lot faugheen better.
Grasshopper
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It's only natural that anyone who wasn't backing Hurricane Fly these last 5 years wouldn't rate them too highly.
It's all about context.
It's all about context.
Would agree but having seen foghorn in be paddock yesterday, he doesn't look like one that will go chasing at all so it might not have been by choice.
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Was getting an insane ride before he was killed.
granger
Senior Jockey
I was agreeing with you.
Grasshopper
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My bad......came out second-best at weights, rather than getting beat.
Dunno, Nath; don't forget TNO was equally impressive around the same unsuitable course last term when running away from Rock On Ruby, but it's a matter of record he didn't have the speed when it came to the big one. Jezki did, though.
Aye it was a cracking performance, and in a good time, but running away from horses 20lb shy of top class (or boats like ROR) is hardly a guide to finding a gear change where it matters.
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EC1
On a break
When TNO beat ROR at Kempton he beat a 3yo hurdler rated approx 125 time by about 5 seconds....Faugheen beat a 140+ rated older novice by approx the same time.
So even though it looks like TNO achieved more..it didn't..ROR flattered him by not being fully fit..and the time confirms that Faugheen's performance is about a stone better than TNO..just on that one run
a horse that looks a stone better than TNO..should be really short for the CH i would think
thats just one way of measuring how good Faugheen is
there are others..but i can't be arsed.
time only matters in prison
So even though it looks like TNO achieved more..it didn't..ROR flattered him by not being fully fit..and the time confirms that Faugheen's performance is about a stone better than TNO..just on that one run
a horse that looks a stone better than TNO..should be really short for the CH i would think
thats just one way of measuring how good Faugheen is
there are others..but i can't be arsed.
time only matters in prison
TNO beat:
A 170 horse 10l (levels)
A 130 horse 40l (rec 7)
A 124 horse 90l (rec 15)
None of them were 3yo, (but I won't jump up and down on an obvious error for the next 3 days to avoid answering your other points).
As both Faugheen and TNO are both probably better over further, then the stronger pace should have favoured the former.
EC1
On a break
None of them were 3yo, (but I won't jump up and down on an obvious error for the next 3 days to avoid answering your other points).
there was no obvious error..read it again...you are there again trying be smart when you have overlooked completely everything i posted..and i'll add..if i do make an error..i admit to it..unlike yourself who doesn't appear to have the ability to do so. If yours had just been a simple error i would have let it go..but seeing as you highlighted what you thought was my error and added your usual..as above ...belittling manner....i made a point of highlighting it. Thats why i kept mentioning it..because of your attitude.
anyway..back to this b0ll0x we chewing cud over
Duroble Man is the 3yo who won the first race on the card..which is what the comparison was all about..that race with TNO..and the nov hurdle on boxing day compared with Faugheen...all races involved..decently run..good comparisons
Before trying to make me look a dick Reet..which your record at doing is sh1te by the way....read the posts properly in future eh?
good man
Time is only important in jail
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EC1
On a break
duplicate
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Well just bloody say so then !
A stone better? That is seriously excessive. Now you are convincing me that time is a waste of time if that is the conclusion.
How on earth can yesterday's performance be a stone better than anything tno has achieved? That puts the second and third higher than the new one doesnt it? Or as near as dammit. No one can argue that.
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EC1
On a break
no it doesn't really Clive..because when TNO beat ROR neither horse would have been at their full powers..you can guess what level they have run to..but i'll make a stab at 155 for TNO..makes Faugheen a 170 on that measure..but when i came to my figure final figure of 165...as posted yesterday.. i erred on the side of the other two measures i used and was conservative..i don't over rate if i can help it Clive
do you think 155 would be a fair measure for TNO when it won at Kempton?...it certainly wouldn't be CH fitness level would it?..it doesn't really matter tbh...it won't be south of 150 and unlikely to be north of 160
the times clearly point to at least a stone better for Faugheen..that bit is in black and white..i haven't invented the times...they both beat the other race by about 5 seconds..Faugheen beat older horses though..whereas TNO beat 3yo's...more worthy beating a higher rated older horse
i'd be taking Faugheen very seriously..but if you don't..its no prob to me ...i just put a figure on it...my figure..my view...same as any one else is able to do...i don't see many trying to put a figure on it though..even though we talk endlessly about handicap marks..i haven't seen one person put a figure on that performance yet on here
Time is only useful in jail
do you think 155 would be a fair measure for TNO when it won at Kempton?...it certainly wouldn't be CH fitness level would it?..it doesn't really matter tbh...it won't be south of 150 and unlikely to be north of 160
the times clearly point to at least a stone better for Faugheen..that bit is in black and white..i haven't invented the times...they both beat the other race by about 5 seconds..Faugheen beat older horses though..whereas TNO beat 3yo's...more worthy beating a higher rated older horse
i'd be taking Faugheen very seriously..but if you don't..its no prob to me ...i just put a figure on it...my figure..my view...same as any one else is able to do...i don't see many trying to put a figure on it though..even though we talk endlessly about handicap marks..i haven't seen one person put a figure on that performance yet on here
Time is only useful in jail
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EC1
On a break
there is no abuse there..what are you on about now?...you got answered back in the same manner you posted..and every time you post to me in that way you will be replied back to in a similar way..start posting in a decent manner..i'll do the same...keep trying to be a smart arse..i'll do the same
there was no error
i've answered your point..read the original post,..the comparison was with the juvenile hurdle for TNO & teh Nov one with Faugheen..not a comparison with horses behind TNO.
there was no error
i've answered your point..read the original post,..the comparison was with the juvenile hurdle for TNO & teh Nov one with Faugheen..not a comparison with horses behind TNO.
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Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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EC1
On a break
yes ..will look forward to your view DO
mine is probably wrong..tbh..i.m not bothered..at least its backed up..you don't see much of that on here do you?
mine is probably wrong..tbh..i.m not bothered..at least its backed up..you don't see much of that on here do you?
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