Champion Stakes

SteveM

SteveM

At the Start
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Frankel has been entered for both the QE II and Champion Stakes on October 15... wonder if he could be tempted to run in both.:(
 
This has always been a not epic race. Thank christ they're trying to do something about it.

1997---Pilsudski---Gash race, good winner
1998---Alborada---Daylami under par
1999---Alborada---High Rise and Greek Dance over the top
2000---Kalanisi---Montjeu over the to
2001---Nayef---
2002---Storming Home---Gash
2003---Rakti---Gash race, good winner
2004---Haafhd---Gash
2005---David Junior---Pile of hoop
2006---Pride---Pile of hoop
2007---Literato---Gash
2008---New Approach---The exception that proves the rule
2009---Twice Over---Gash
2010---Twice Over---Not epic
 
All nitpicking aside, this race has only been won by six "stars" in the past 14 years:

New Approach
Haafhd
Rakti
Nayef
Kalanisi
Pilsudski

If ever there was a G1 in need of a shot in the arm, this is it.

A propos of nothing, how bad would things need to get for a Group 1 to be downgraded?
 
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Bar the Bull said:
All nitpicking aside, this race has only been won by six "stars" in the past 14 years:

New Approach
Haafhd
Rakti
Nayef
Kalanisi
Pilsudski

If ever there was a G1 in need of a shot in the arm, this is it.

A propos of nothing, how bad would things need to get for a Group 1 to be downgraded?
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Are you on drugs? It's arguably the more prestigious 10f race in Europe.
 
Bar the Bull said:
Pffft.

Hurricane Run over the top in the Pride race. Rob Roy had the fortitude of a trifle. Olympian Oddyssey was shite.

Haafhd beat nothing. Chorist was 112 rated. Azamour was over the top and spat the dummy.
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Haafhd was the worst running of this race we've seen. Horrendous race.
 
Bar the Bull said:
I think the following G1 races over 10f in Europe are more prestigious.

Irish Champion
Coral Eclipse
Juddmonte International
Prince of Wales's Stakes
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Opps I thought you were saying the Irish Champion needed a shot in the arm.

I'm out of here :whistle:
 
Bar the Bull said:
All nitpicking aside, this race has only been won by six "stars" in the past 14 years:

New Approach
Haafhd
Rakti
Nayef
Kalanisi
Pilsudski

If ever there was a G1 in need of a shot in the arm, this is it.

A propos of nothing, how bad would things need to get for a Group 1 to be downgraded?
Click to expand...

Haafhd was not a star, imo. Won a bizarre Guineas, beaten comfortably in the Dewhurst, St James Palace and Sussex, before winning the worst renewal of the Champion we've seen.

I would like to think it's closer to a Group 2 than Group 1, but with the clowns now in charge of the BHA a downgrade will never be on the cards..
 
I agree with most of that.

Maybe racing for change should have set about beefing up the York or Goodwood meetings as the English showcase. York would make more sense to me, if they included a 7f Group 1 and a staying Group 1.
 
These two are comfortably the best meetings for me. Great cards, in summer so the ground is usually perfect for flat racing, attracts the best horses, great atmospheres (neither Ascot nor Newmarket), great tracks.
 
Definitely.

Goodwood is prettier than Ballybrit, and has a greater variety of circuits, but as a track for top class flat racing it is almost equally unsuitable. Over certain races the draw is crucial, and the camber on the finishing straight throws horses on top of each other. Races there can be a lottery.
 
Bar the Bull said:
A propos of nothing, how bad would things need to get for a Group 1 to be downgraded?
Click to expand...

Quite bad. The average rating awarded to the first four home, averaged again over three years, has to fall below 115. Even then there's a warning system in place before the downgrade actually occurs.
 
Bar the Bull said:
I think the following G1 races over 10f in Europe are more prestigious.

Irish Champion
Coral Eclipse
Juddmonte International
Prince of Wales's Stakes
Click to expand...

in the past Eclipse and champion were top races


nowdays the irish champion and prince of wales are the best 2 followed by the international
 
sunybay said:
in the past Eclipse and champion were top races


nowdays the irish champion and prince of wales are the best 2 followed by the international
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The Irish Champion Stakes is less than 40 years old and the Prince Of Wales Stakes has only been a Gr1 since 2000, which goes to show that the Pattern can change without the sky falling in.
 
Grey said:
Goodwood is prettier than Ballybrit, and has a greater variety of circuits, but as a track for top class flat racing it is almost equally unsuitable. Over certain races the draw is crucial, and the camber on the finishing straight throws horses on top of each other. Races there can be a lottery.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this. York is our finest track for staging big meetings by a country mile followed by the July Course. Sandown would be suitable if it was a bit bigger.
 
Goodwood, same as Epsom, is perfectly fair. A part of a test of a thoroughbred is balance, and this provides it. The setting is unbeatable, and it and York provide great tests and perfect festivals - no negatives to either.
 
Bar the Bull said:
There are more hard luck stories at Goodwood than the single lads on this forum's annual night out.

It is a great track, but I would prefer to have additional Group 1 races in Yorkshire.
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It doesn't really have to be an A better than B scenario though, does it?

People don't realise when backing a horse they are also backing the jockey aboard. I would have won a lot at Goodwood if Ryan Moore didn't make a mess of a couple of horses I thought very well in, on which he finished like a train. No complaints from me though, I knew his style is more and more to hold them up, and at Goodwood this can be fraught with danger. My choice to back the horse with him on board, my responsibility for the bet not winning.

York is also great. As is Sandown. And Newbury is much underrated. The King George there some years back was great (I was there).
 
That's true when it comes to betting mediums, but I think championship races should be about finding the best horse, not the best horse/jockey/track combo.

Agree about Sandown and Newbury. Pity they only have the Lockinge at the latter; that suffers from its timing.
 
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