On The Bridle
At the Start
One simple question. Does Ridasiyna run in the Mares race?
CHampions Day - Ascot
- Thread starter On The Bridle
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Gamla Stan
At the Start
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I hope they save her for Santa Anita myself. Very exciting horse either way.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Took big prices about Cirrus Des Aigles before his Prix Dollar romp. If the rain comes and it's soft he has a cracking chance of beating Frankel. No each way malarkey either.
Good luck, I hope he does beat him.
Frankel is the epitome of why the flat is often so boring. Never raced outside the UK, always kept to what they knew suited him, and a thoroughly unadventurous campaign. Yes, he is very very good, but how people get excited about him I have no idea.
People criticise Ballydoyle a lot, but they never ever duck a challenge or an opportunity to test their horses in foreign conditions (Breeders Cup Classic - they are happy to risk a great horse tailing in last, and yes I realise it's because of the risk/reward ratio). No fault of the horse of course in Frankel's case, but could his career have been any more boring in terms of races taken in? I doubt it.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Frankel was never gonna be campaigned with adventure in mind because of who his trainer is. Sir Henry had perfect Arc horses in Oh So Sharp and Reference Point but decided they'd be better off in the St Leger. If the latter had been given a break after his Eclipse win chances are he'd have won in Paris and maybe his trainer would have aimed more horses at the races subsequently.
EC1
On a break
apart from the Arc i personally can't see the appeal of overseas races tbh..breeders cup?...the epitome of boredom imo..the "overseas to be great" argument doesn't hold water with me much..with worldwide ratings we know who is what and there is nothing he would need to fear abroad imo
i wish F had run in the Arc of course but at the end of the day he has stepped up in trip and beat the 10f horses easier than the 8f ones..i would have personally preferrd him being campaigned at 10f early this year then move up to 12 and finish off in the Arc....i think we all have missed seeing something even greater than what we have already witnessed..but underneath all his campaign is the health of Henry Cecil..that might have played a part
i think once you have a horse that is so far ahead of others you will always be facing the same oppo..you could say Arkle's Gold Cups were boring is there were next to no runners and Mill House was his Excelebration.
I think you just like the jumps Hamm...years ago i did..when the flat started in March i used to think..this is really boring..races over in a minute..spectacle not as exciting.
NH is more exciting to watch that is for sure..but these days i enjoy both equally..
The only point I have any sympathy for is with regards to the Arc - It would have been nice for him to run over 12f. However, I can't have Dubai or America, particularly at the moment as the current American horses are frankly average at best. Most would have trouble beating St Nic let alone Frankel. The best horse he hasn't faced (Second best in the world currently) will be up against him on Champions day, as will the joint 3rd best turf horse in the world. Why go to the BC to run against a bunch of average dirt horses? He'll prove more running here.
As i've said on other threads, the fact that those horses are running in Europes now richest 10f event is a good thing for British racing and frankly the American's shot themselves in the foot when they reverted to Dirt as they knew it was the only way to stop the Europeans murdering them every year.
If the surface was synthetic they might have got to see him.
As i've said on other threads, the fact that those horses are running in Europes now richest 10f event is a good thing for British racing and frankly the American's shot themselves in the foot when they reverted to Dirt as they knew it was the only way to stop the Europeans murdering them every year.
If the surface was synthetic they might have got to see him.
Entered in the Champion....
Gamla Stan
At the Start
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Not wanting to get into the old flat/jumps debate but which top class jumps horses in the past few years have ran outside of the UK? One of the reasons I enjoy the flat so much is the international element to it, it is a worldwide sport and the different form lines that come together for the big international races intrigue me greatly.
Big Bucks is the epitome of why the jumps is often so boring for me.
He's been kept to what they knew suited him. However, both horses are extreme examples being such exceptional talents.Jumps is however a UK/Ire (and France to a lesser degree) based sport. I have long said it's crazy how few trainers bring their horses to France (though I understand it from a Cheltenham or France point of view; for prize money, it's madness they don't go over more - Mullins and George aside).
I hate the way Big Bucks is campaigned, and that is why for me he is quite a boring horse, and in one way, his campaigning is very similar to Frankel, so no arguments there. They won't even run him in the Aintree Hurdle!
I hate the way Big Bucks is campaigned, and that is why for me he is quite a boring horse, and in one way, his campaigning is very similar to Frankel, so no arguments there. They won't even run him in the Aintree Hurdle!
This much of a chance (my thumb and index finger are practically touching).
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Their are only really three nations that are powerhouses of jumps racing - Ireland, UK and France.
As someone who follows racing in all three I've seen horses in the UK that I think would be suited to racing in the biggest French raes and vice versa, also horses that raced in the biggest French races that would go close in the biggest British races ie. Cheltenham and Aintree and horses that ran in Ireland that would go well over in France.
The French are doing their best to attract the UK and Irish runners to their biggest meetings and are succeeding in part with the Grand Steeplechase De Paris undercard and the Champion Hurdle but less so with the paying entry for transport, accomodation etc. for the massive November meeting they stage - in recent years I can only recall the David Pipe trained Soliya contest the Prix Bournosienne and two Kevin Tork runners (Zhukov and Karingabay Queen) race over there.
The Crystal Cup series is helping for XC racing with Maljimar, Doctor Pat and Uncle Junior going on to race in the Czech Republic last Saturday whilst Another Jewel has also won in France but even the UK and Irish legs of the series (at Cheltenham and Punhestown) struggle to attract the best horses from France due to the prize money issues. Hopefully that will change soon as I've heard that the legend Chrisetti will be at Cheltenham this Autumn for their leg of the series.
I'd like their to be a genuine World Championships for flat racing - the best horses in the majority of racing jurisdictions race on turf so the most valuable race should naturally be on that surface. Ideally it would be staged at the end of November or start of December and rotate around a number of racecourses (think Sha Tin, the major Japanese tracks, Flemington, Meydan, Longchamp, Ascot, Leopardstown, Santa Anita, Belmont Park and Woodbine say) and there'd be a 10f turf race, a 12f turf race, 2m turf race, 1m turf race and 6f turf race and when possible there'd be a 10f dirt/synthetic race also.
As others have said staging the BC on dirt in addition to a £1m+ Champion Stakes has pretty much ensured that the best in the UK will stay at home - the British Champions Day is only two weeks after the Arc which is as close to a Championship as we have in Europe and the only reason we've managed to attract CDA in recent years is because he's a gelding and unable to run in the Arc.
Would also say that the closes we get to genuine World Class races in the UK are the three big World Sprint Series races at Ascot and Newmarket - we can attract the best around which we struggle to do for a number of other races due to the prize money issue, but with the bonus for winning on different continents and those three being the only options we attract horses from the Far East, Middle East, USA and Australia.
Martin
As someone who follows racing in all three I've seen horses in the UK that I think would be suited to racing in the biggest French raes and vice versa, also horses that raced in the biggest French races that would go close in the biggest British races ie. Cheltenham and Aintree and horses that ran in Ireland that would go well over in France.
The French are doing their best to attract the UK and Irish runners to their biggest meetings and are succeeding in part with the Grand Steeplechase De Paris undercard and the Champion Hurdle but less so with the paying entry for transport, accomodation etc. for the massive November meeting they stage - in recent years I can only recall the David Pipe trained Soliya contest the Prix Bournosienne and two Kevin Tork runners (Zhukov and Karingabay Queen) race over there.
The Crystal Cup series is helping for XC racing with Maljimar, Doctor Pat and Uncle Junior going on to race in the Czech Republic last Saturday whilst Another Jewel has also won in France but even the UK and Irish legs of the series (at Cheltenham and Punhestown) struggle to attract the best horses from France due to the prize money issues. Hopefully that will change soon as I've heard that the legend Chrisetti will be at Cheltenham this Autumn for their leg of the series.
I'd like their to be a genuine World Championships for flat racing - the best horses in the majority of racing jurisdictions race on turf so the most valuable race should naturally be on that surface. Ideally it would be staged at the end of November or start of December and rotate around a number of racecourses (think Sha Tin, the major Japanese tracks, Flemington, Meydan, Longchamp, Ascot, Leopardstown, Santa Anita, Belmont Park and Woodbine say) and there'd be a 10f turf race, a 12f turf race, 2m turf race, 1m turf race and 6f turf race and when possible there'd be a 10f dirt/synthetic race also.
As others have said staging the BC on dirt in addition to a £1m+ Champion Stakes has pretty much ensured that the best in the UK will stay at home - the British Champions Day is only two weeks after the Arc which is as close to a Championship as we have in Europe and the only reason we've managed to attract CDA in recent years is because he's a gelding and unable to run in the Arc.
Would also say that the closes we get to genuine World Class races in the UK are the three big World Sprint Series races at Ascot and Newmarket - we can attract the best around which we struggle to do for a number of other races due to the prize money issue, but with the bonus for winning on different continents and those three being the only options we attract horses from the Far East, Middle East, USA and Australia.
Martin
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Too much focus around Cheltenham...numerous top-class horses only getting 3 runs a season. The jumps season isn't all that great.
I prefer the jumps myself, but the gap is narrowing every year.
I prefer the jumps myself, but the gap is narrowing every year.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Agree to an extent Bar - too much of this "we need a Championship 2 1/2m Chase" lark, we had one it was called the Melling Chase, we have a 2 1/2m Hurdle - the Aintree Hurdle and if they're that bothered about a 2 1/2m Novice Chase they can run in the Powers Gold Cup.
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Or the race in Ayr.
Or the bloody Scilly Isles, which is a Grade 1, and has possibly the worst list of winners in any top-level jumps race ever.
Or the bloody Scilly Isles, which is a Grade 1, and has possibly the worst list of winners in any top-level jumps race ever.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
There's those too - or the Manifesto Novices at Aintree too.
this Frankel affair looks funny
the horse has not travel but has run in the best races in the world against top class opossition, he has run at 2 3 and 4yo
has won the races in a manner I have not seen any horse in 30 years and has posted the best figures you can imagine
the horse has a value as a stallion of more than 100million pounds and has run in 14 races.
About the races he has not run
the only one is the Arc , but winning the irish champion beating Snow fairy and Nathaniel or the Moulin beating Farhh and Moonlight would not add too much to what he has done
the only thing is beating Cirrus on soft ground or Black Caviar over 6f
about the Breeders Cup
is out of fashion and why run a Galileo on dirt
I like flat and Nh in the same way and I dont have any doubt he is the best horse I have seen
the horse has not travel but has run in the best races in the world against top class opossition, he has run at 2 3 and 4yo
has won the races in a manner I have not seen any horse in 30 years and has posted the best figures you can imagine
the horse has a value as a stallion of more than 100million pounds and has run in 14 races.
About the races he has not run
the only one is the Arc , but winning the irish champion beating Snow fairy and Nathaniel or the Moulin beating Farhh and Moonlight would not add too much to what he has done
the only thing is beating Cirrus on soft ground or Black Caviar over 6f
about the Breeders Cup
is out of fashion and why run a Galileo on dirt
I like flat and Nh in the same way and I dont have any doubt he is the best horse I have seen
I think the narrative in the jumps from the Paddy Power to Xmas is fantastic. Paddy Power meeting, Hennessy, Badger Ales, Tingle Creek, Betfair Chase, Bula meeting (or whatever it's called now), King George, Leopardstown Xmas. Great racing every weekend. It's the period after Xmas and before Cheltenham, specifially late Jan to early March, that is low on quality (like an international football break, interminable and no-one really cares).
I do agree about the 3 times a season argument, but apart from isolated examples (Kauto, Denman, Twiston-Davies, Quevega) it's not too bad - Hurricane Fly and Rock ob Ruby ran often enough last year, same with Finian's and Sizing; Big Bucks same (although I have other issues with his campaigning than quantity), as did Synchronised and Long Run.
the horse is so good that can make the people to think he is boring
the key is that he is going to be a stallion
The problem is that Frankel was never going to run in the Arc whatever the ground. He should have been an intended runner if the ground was good.