CHampions Day - Ascot

but apart from isolated examples (Kauto, Denman, Twiston-Davies, Quevega)
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Bit harsh on Kauto who has had some busy seasons for sure

Frankel should be staying in training to grab those 10- 12 f races. He would be beyond the legend he is now if he did. Why miss that great opportunity ? need not be the arc either. Keep him around for the KGV and then knock it on the head (and no bollocks about Khalid "needing" the breeding fees...pleasssssssse)

On other hand, they should have grabbed the mettle earlier and he should have been stepped up asap this season. i think most would agree with that. Naturally want to see the great horse win on Sat but slight frustration thats theres unanswered questions
 
If he were mine I wouldn't be racing him beyond this year either. Entire horses are a completely different proposition to train than NH geldings and the challenges don't get any easier as they get older, quite the opposite.

There's also another career beckoning at stud. It's not (just) about the stud fees for the owner, in Frankel's case there's a benefit for all followers of racing if one of the best horses of an entire lifetime gets to improve the breed.
 
Oh i just cant have that. What a weird sport flat racing is.

Ok they might be harder to train at an older age, granted. but this is a once in a century horse and finally a flat horse that is a draw to the game. get on with it and get flat racing its day in the sun...because it bloody needs it.

but they are at stud for 20 bloody years sometimes. Whats the rush? And none of this "he might get killed' stuff, because he wont will he?

And whats "enough" on the racecourse? "enough' to me is meaningless if theres greater possibilities and still untapped potential
 
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Cecil has always said he'd do the right thing by the horse and that's good enough for me. He's been around for 3 seasons and in every one he has done something special; with STS, Zenyatta, Black Caviar and Frankel I feel like we have been living through a golden age recently so it's a shame some people don't feel the same.
 
clivex said:
but they are at stud for 20 bloody years sometimes. Whats the rush? And none of this "he might get killed' stuff, because he wont will he?
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Dubai Millenium was 1 year at stud


Abdullah was a sportsman
being in training is a dangerous game, remember Peintre Celebre at 4
and he could be very good for the breeding


seeing how Galileos are doing Frankel could be a supersire and will be better for the sport rather than watching him for another season and boring people with long distance winning in group 1 races
 
Strange opinions

Is "one year' at stud typical then? Come off it...

And no one has said it isnt a golden age, but why not want more? Sport is about pushing boundaries surely?

I remember Dancing Brave too...although he did race across the board and arguably did do 'enough"...his offspring were rubbish.

no one can crab what he has achieved, tahts not the point at all. But no one can say hes achieved all he could do. thats clear
eeing how Galileos are doing Frankel could be a supersire and will be better for the sport rather than watching him for another season and boring people with long distance winning in group 1 races
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How could it be boring to see him try the arc?
 
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i think people get used to watching exceptional performances after a bit..its like what they are watching becomes a norm..instead of appreciating it as exceptional ..the lesser performers..which are our norm in most years ...then get pushed down the ladder rather than the the great performer being appreciated for what it is....and being pushed upwards

so an exceptional performer stops being that at the time he is doing it ..then once the exceptional performer is no longer there people get used to the old norm again..and when they look back they then appreciate how lucky they were..real time is never as good as looking back

if that don't make sense then sorry..but i know what i mean

.if watching a horse throw in multiple 140 performances isn't what the game is about then i don't know what is
 
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I hope the forecasters are wrong but Ascot could be bottomless on the round track by Saturday.
 
If this rain keeps coming down be worse ideas than having a tickle on Sov Debt in QE2 at 66/1 he'll love it and loves Ascot. Not suggesting he'll win but he'll certainly go through it.
 
Hamm said:
It's just been so .... boring.
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I was at Newmarket for the Guineas last year, at Goodwood for the Sussex Stakes clash with Canford Cliffs and at York for the Juddmonte. Each occasion - the first and last in particular - was up there with the best experiences I've had in 36 years of going to the races and that's from someone who saw Dawn Run's Gold Cup, Shergar's Derby, Dancing Brave's Guineas and Desert Orchid's Gold Cup, among others.

I can see the argument that Frankel could have been campaigned in a more exciting fashion but anyone who has been "bored" when watching this horse needs to check he's still got a pulse.

As for hoping it's bottomless so the horse gets beaten, words fail me.
 
why is it assumed frankel will flop on this ground? I thought gallieos were ok on it? (might be wrong). He doesnt look like a horse that will be massively inconvenienced by it
 
I dont want the horse beaten
but on soft ground he will be tested by a super horse in Cirrus
it could be a race to remember
 
sunybay said:
... and boring people with long distance winning in group 1 races
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Can't agree, suny. I would never get bored seeing a top horse win G1s by wide margins. Brigadier Gerard (especially) and Mill Reef did it and they were never boring. Reference Point and Shergar's derbies were hardly boring. Dubai Millennium surging clear of Sendawar at Ascot was spine-tingling.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Can't agree, suny. I would never get bored seeing a top horse win G1s by wide margins. Brigadier Gerard (especially) and Mill Reef did it and they were never boring. Reference Point and Shergar's derbies were hardly boring. Dubai Millennium surging clear of Sendawar at Ascot was spine-tingling.
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It was an irony
I am not bored of Frankel
In fact I have seen him live at Royal Ascot

I was going to go to York but my wife got ill and had to void the trip


He is the beest horse I have seen and very likely I will see
 
I agree about DM vs. Sendawar, one of the greatest races I can remember.

But the reason why it was so good was because there was genuine debate before the race as to who would win. I seem to remember they were both trading around 11/10. Sendawar was a serious horse. On form. So to see DM tear the arse off him meant we knew we were looking at something special.

When Frankel won the Juddmonte, it was confirmation.
 
sunybay said:
seeing how Galileos are doing Frankel could be a supersire and will be better for the sport rather than watching him for another season and boring people with long distance winning in group 1 races
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He could be, but didn't they say that about Secretariat (a better and more versatile horse than even Frankel)? It's far from guaranteed.

He was a decent sire, but never lived up to the lofty expectations.
 
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clivex said:
why is it assumed frankel will flop on this ground? I thought gallieos were ok on it? (might be wrong). He doesnt look like a horse that will be massively inconvenienced by it
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His mother also won a listed race in soft ground .
 
Bar the Bull said:
I agree about DM vs. Sendawar, one of the greatest races I can remember.

But the reason why it was so good was because there was genuine debate before the race as to who would win. I seem to remember they were both trading around 11/10. Sendawar was a serious horse. On form. So to see DM tear the arse off him meant we knew we were looking at something special.
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Godolphin were on a bad run at the time and DM was available at 6/4 on the morning of the race in some places.
 
gus said:
I was at Newmarket for the Guineas last year, at Goodwood for the Sussex Stakes clash with Canford Cliffs and at York for the Juddmonte. Each occasion - the first and last in particular - was up there with the best experiences I've had in 36 years of going to the races and that's from someone who saw Dawn Run's Gold Cup, Shergar's Derby, Dancing Brave's Guineas and Desert Orchid's Gold Cup, among others.

I can see the argument that Frankel could have been campaigned in a more exciting fashion but anyone who has been "bored" when watching this horse needs to check he's still got a pulse.

As for hoping it's bottomless so the horse gets beaten, words fail me.
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Gus,

The reason I would like it bottomless and him beaten is connections have taken a very conservative approach to his campaigning, and now he will not (possibly) have ideal conditions would, in my opinion, be just desserts. I would also like to see CDA win. Is that so bad?

Glad for you that you enjoyed his experiences so much, but it hasn't been for me (I saw his Dewhurst live, everything else on TV). I did enjoy his Queen Anne, but mainly this year I felt they have missed many opportunities to show he is a champion.

What I mean by a champion isn't a great horse. Sea the Stars for me was a true champion, because he took in every challenge, distance, country and won them all. Frankel may be the better horse on paper or ratings, but I know who my heart will remember the fondest.
 
Leaving aside the betting one surely must feel a deal of sympathy for CDA and his connections. The Arc was tailor made for him this year but an antiquated rule prevents him from running. The Champion Stakes would e a decent enough compensation package I suppose.

Gus's position is interesting. As much as the sport is governed by betting there is the element of fan boyism with some horses so I can understand why some people won't see the horse ever beaten. But if the ground is between soft and heavy on Saturday I'd almost make the French horse favourite.
 
In which case you'll have a very big opportunity to have a very big bet as he will never be lower than 3s I would think.
 
Hamm said:
Gus,

The reason I would like it bottomless and him beaten is connections have taken a very conservative approach to his campaigning, and now he will not (possibly) have ideal conditions would, in my opinion, be just desserts. I would also like to see CDA win. Is that so bad?

Glad for you that you enjoyed his experiences so much, but it hasn't been for me (I saw his Dewhurst live, everything else on TV). I did enjoy his Queen Anne, but mainly this year I felt they have missed many opportunities to show he is a champion.

What I mean by a champion isn't a great horse. Sea the Stars for me was a true champion, because he took in every challenge, distance, country and won them all. Frankel may be the better horse on paper or ratings, but I know who my heart will remember the fondest.
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Mmm - as far as i can remember at the time of the Dewhurst you and Shadow Leader were belittling Frankel and suggesting Saamidd would beat him .

Not one of your best calls ;)
 
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