Change Just One Result...

Hamm said:
Oh, forgot ... Youmzain to rightfully have been awarded the Arc.

I was at Longchamp the day Price Tag got thrown out of the French 1000 and what Dylan Thomas did was ten times worse.

I also had backed Youmzain to quite a decent stake at 95/1, and would have been in a few grand.
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Agree wholeheartedly, not Youmzain's biggest fan but I've seen plenty of horses thrown out for a lot less, especially in France. The stewards bottled it that day.
 
Youmzain would have been winning it by default rather than merit, though, as he wasn't interfered with. Best horse won at the end of the day, which is all you can ask for :)
 
No, it's very much not. The best horse who doesn't break any rules is what most people would want I'd imagine.

Anyway, Youmzain was interfered with by Richard Hughes :)
 
Hamm said:
It was an ugly day for racing imo, where stewards lost their bottle big time.
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Bottle? When have the French ever gone easy on O'Brien? It's not as if they have not done it before in Grade 1s and Classics. Strange decision but bottle does not come into it.
 
In a lesser race they wouldn't have thought twice about it, they bottled it because it was such a big race and the whole world had their eyes on them.
 
Seriously though, it is a shame that that race in particular didn't wake the various racing authorities up to the need for harmonising interference (and other result-changing) rules across all major jurisdictions.
 
Galileo said:
Bottle? When have the French ever gone easy on O'Brien? It's not as if they have not done it before in Grade 1s and Classics. Strange decision but bottle does not come into it.
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I'm not referring to other cases; just to this one.

Wrong decision, and a blind man could see he should have been thrown out. They bottled it as there was always the chance Magnier and Co. would throw their toys out of the pram and not support French racing to the same degree.
 
So other cases don't come into it, even when they show a pattern of behaviour that completely contradicts your accusation. Very selective :)
 
There is no such thing as a pattern of behaviour with Stewards.

What exactly are the greviances of the AOB camp in France?
 
The pattern of behaviour is that the French authorities, and Longchamp stewards in particular, have had no problem with disqualifying/re-placing Coolmore-owned horses, fining Coolmore trainers or suspending Coolmore-retained jockeys in the past. There is no record of leniency towards Coolmore interests; indeed quite the opposite.

You may think that the stewards bottled it, but your accusation that their reason for doing so was to keep Coolmore happy has absolutely no basis.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
The pattern of behaviour is that the French authorities, and Longchamp stewards in particular, have had no problem with disqualifying/re-placing Coolmore-owned horses, fining Coolmore trainers or suspending Coolmore-retained jockeys in the past. There is no record of leniency towards Coolmore interests; indeed quite the opposite.

You may think that the stewards bottled it, but your accusation that their reason for doing so was to keep Coolmore happy has absolutely no basis.
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What record is there of anti Coolmore bias en France?
 
Where did I suggest there was an anti-Coolmore bias?

In addition to my earlier point, what reason would the French authorities have for believing that Coolmore would possibly "throw their toys out of the pram and not support French racing to the same degree."

When Powerscourt was disqualified after being first past the post in the Arlington Million, did Coolmore throw their toys out of the pram? Quite the opposite; they did exactly what you'd want a sporting owner to do: they targeted the horse at the same race the following year, and they went out and won it fair and square.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
So other cases don't come into it, even when they show a pattern of behaviour that completely contradicts your accusation. Very selective :)
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I'm asking what other cases (where you feel Ballydoyle have been hard done by) are you referring to?
 
I consider not bringing any horses to Dubai quite childish.

I don't accept the argument about bringing on their horses later in the season, as every other yard seems perfectly capable of having some horses ready early, and some for late season campaigns.
 
Yes, but Coolmore don't have any horses in training in Dubai, whereas they have good horses in France. It's hardly comparable; and anyway targeting horses at Dubai involves a big change in the seasonal rota, so to speak. It just doesn't fit in with how Coolmore operate, so I doubt that particular tit-for-tat is losing them much in spite of the big prize money on offer.

I think the suggestion that Stewards may have bottled it due to the occasion is nearer the mark
 
Hamm said:
I'm asking what other cases (where you feel Ballydoyle have been hard done by) are you referring to?
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Off the top of my head, suspending Jamie Spencer when Antonius Pius went through the running rail in the French Guineas seemed harsh. But they obviously felt he was to blame and had no compunction in adding to the disappointment that connections must have been feeling in having just seen their horse throw away a Classic.
 
It's a separate point!

I'm still waiting for you and Galileo to show me how O'Brien has suffered in France.

Antonius Pius took out half the field. It was the easiest suspension anyone will ever make!
 
Hamm said:
It's a separate point!

I'm still waiting for you and Galileo to show me how O'Brien has suffered in France.

Antonius Pius took out half the field. It was the easiest suspension anyone will ever make!
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Hamm, read the posts. No one is suggesting that O'Brien has been particularly harshly treated by the French. What I am saying is that French stewards in the past have had the "bottle" to throw out Coolmore horses in their Group 1s and Classics in the past and I see no reason to suggest they would not have the "bottle" to do so again.

Coolmore did not have runners in Dubai long before any dispute came about....they used to regularly make block entries for the race. Like others said it is really early in the season and horses have to be shipped out early at an important stage of the season. Basically Europe is too important to risk a trip to Dubai were the stud value for winners does not compare to the likes of King Georges, Guineas etc.
 
It's a separate point!
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That's kind; I'd call it a non sequitur :)

I'm still waiting for you and Galileo to show me how O'Brien has suffered in France.
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Again, where did I say he has "suffered"? Coolmore horses, jockeys and trainers have been punished by the Longchamp stewards and the French authorities in the past. There has never been any favouritism shown towards them - indeed, as I have pointed out, there have been occasions where their desicions have come across as harsh.

Yet you would have us believe that his policy was completely dispensed with in the aftermath of the Arc. You have absolutely no basis for that claim.

Antonius Pius took out half the field. It was the easiest suspension anyone will ever make!
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No jockey could have done anything to stop him - the suspension was harsh.
 
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