Change Just One Result...

Probably Celeritas when he threw away a race winning opportunity at Beverley.

From a financial point of view Just So in the National and Franchoek in last years Triumph.
 
No one is suggesting that O'Brien has been particularly harshly treated by the French.
Click to expand...

I think they've been harsh, but I think the French rules are pretty harsh (compared to the British and Irish ones, at least) and, as you say, those rules have been applied to Coolmore runners without any consideration of who they are.
 
A quick internet search found this snippet on breedingandracing.com.au:

Dylan Thomas Decision Backed By French Experts

Meanwhile amid major on-going controversy following the stewards decision to dismiss a protest against Dylan Thomas for causing interference in the straight in the Arc, "French racing experts have backed the Longchamp stewards decision not to deprive Dylan Thomas of victory after a nail-biting 35-minute inquiry into Sunday's race," reported racingpost.co.uk.
  • Claude Piersanti (leading racing journalist who writes in Tierce magazine): "It was a very good decision not to change the result, as the best horse won the Arc. Both Stephane Pasquier & Torsten Mundry (fellow jockeys) congratulated Kieren Fallon & told him in no way he would lose the race. If it had been one of our Quinte (5th-grade) handicaps, things might have been different."
  • Alan Cooper (racing manager to Niarchos Family, owner of Sagara): "The decision not to change the result was common sense."
  • Pascal Bary (trainer of unplaced Zambezi Sun): "It was a good decision to leave the result. The best horse won the Arc, but the stewards are not consistent."
  • Jean-Francois Pre (leading racing journalist): "It was a fair decision & probably easier than the one they made in 1985 when they disqualified Sagace in favour of Rainbow Quest. The 2 were involved in a great fight to the line that day, which wasn't the case on Sunday. Certainly Johnny Murtagh, the rider of Dylan Thomas' stable-mate Soldier Of Fortune, would not have gone into the stewards room to say: I'd like to object to the winner."
Click to expand...
Some interesting quotes. The consensus in France appears to have been that the Longchamp stewards could well have chosen to disqualify Dylan Thomas but that it made better sense not to.

Incidentally Zambezi Sun, which was the horse hampered by Dylan Thomas, had been involved in a barging match with Eagle Mountain in the GP de Paris which resulted in K Fallon being fired into the ground. The stewards also chose not to intervene that day.
 
Rhyme and Reason to have gone on the deck as he should have done in the 1988 National and Durham Edition to have won it. Or to have won the 1990 National from Mr Frisk... it would have bankrupted half the bookies in my neck of the woods.
 
You make it sound like random french opinions are facts or near relevant.

I could post up opinions by the likes of McCririck etc but all it would show nothing only I have no opinion.
 
Grey said:
Some interesting quotes. The consensus in France appears to have been that the Longchamp stewards could well have chosen to disqualify Dylan Thomas but that it made better sense not to.

Incidentally Zambezi Sun, which was the horse hampered by Dylan Thomas, had been involved in a barging match with Eagle Mountain in the GP de Paris which resulted in K Fallon being fired into the ground. The stewards also chose not to intervene that day.
Click to expand...


Very interesting, and bears out what some of us think, that the Stewards 'awarded' the Arc to Dylan Thomas on the grounds that the 'best horse should win', rather than apply their own rules! I think we all know what the verdict would have been if the other horse in question had been French trained or owned!

Hamm I think you have misinterpreted Grey's drift...
 
Last edited:
Gareth Flynn said:
Yet your opinion has no basis in fact either.
Click to expand...

Never said it has. But I expressed my own opinion on this. What does it matter if a french jockey said something?!

I responded to Galileo's claim that O'Brien hasn't had it easy in France, when I can find no evidence he has had it anything but.
 
Hamm said:
I responded to Galileo's claim that O'Brien hasn't had it easy in France, when I can find no evidence he has had it anything but.
Click to expand...

You claim the French stewards lost their bottle in the Arc for not disqualifying Dylan Thomas. Asked for a reason why they lost their bottle and you suggested perhaps they were afraid of Magnier and co throwing their toys out of the pram and not running their horses in France.

This despite Coolmore having horses disqualified in France before including in the 2000 Guineas yet still come back and regularly support the race in huge numbers, this despite the fact Coolmore have supported the Arlington Million meeting like no other European trainer since Powerscourt got disqualified, this despite the fact Coolmore continues to run horses in the UK when their jockey was banned (later cleared) for allegations of race fixing, Heffernan suspended because Dettori got upset in the QEII etc etc. The idea that Coolmore have thrown their "toys out of the pram" and not run horses in countries were decisions have gone against them (including disqualifications) holds little or no water based on past evidence. I would add it would be a disgrace if they did.

My whole point was the reasoning for why Dylan Thomas kept the race been down to the stewards losing their bottle is simply a guess - not fact as it appearred to come across as. Stewards in France have shown to have treated O'Brien the same as anyone else in the past so "fear" would not come into it...

Grey's example of the Zambezi Sun is a great one. By French rules he should have been thrown out, but the stewards on the day interpretted it differently...much the same as the stewards in Dylan Thomas's Arc did.
 
trudij said:
Nooooo - RnR would have taken out Midnight Madness if hed gone, and 14 year old me would NEVER have forgiven him....
Click to expand...

Not to mention that people who will a horse to fall piss me off more than you can imagine. I've yelled at several arseholes oncourse who whilst watching a race in which the horse they backed has a horse [or more] in front of them, have yelled "fall, fall" as they come into fences. It gets right on my goat - ignorant as hell.
 
I poured my drink down the trousers of one such in the 1st floor bar at Sandown on KG day the year KK won the big race, and pretended it was an accident LOL. Loathsome tw*ts, such people: imagine willing a horse to risk death or injury just for the sake of a poxy bet. Gets me relly riled up too
 
I'm slightly puzzled by the whole debate over Coolmore and French stewards. Apart from the two incidents already mentioned (Antonius Pius and Dylan Thomas), I'm struggling to recall (off the top of my head) any further instances where stewards have intervened in any big race in which Coolmore interests were involved.

Or am I wrong?
 
Off the top of my head, they disqualified one of their horses in the Lagadere a few years ago, which resulted in two others in the same race being demoted (coupling), Aussie Rules was disqualified in the Fontainebleu I think (not a Group 1, granted), O'Brien got a petty fine because Scorpion played up and didn't stay in order in a pre-race parade, and they once killed a tiny kitten belonging to one of AOB's kids.

That last one may not be true.
 
cd1d58fa8d1b4c128be8535d9621ec32.0.jpg
 
Galileo said:
I was sure you were going to say Rooster Boosters Champion Hurdle second, or his second in the Tote Gold Trophy, or Bula Hurdle, or Punchestown Champion Hurdle...:p
Click to expand...

The Booster won a Championship race at the festival - which is more than can be said for that stubby tailed lump Beefy :p who had to stay at home and hope for a quagmire .
 
Ardross said:
The Booster won a Championship race at the festival - which is more than can be said for that stubby tailed lump Beefy :p who had to stay at home and hope for a quagmire .
Click to expand...

I deserved that...though I was waiting for three other words...Back In Front.
 
His exploits yesterday reminded me.

Overdose was the moral winner of the Abbaye, what a shame there was a false start.
 
Back
Top