Cheltenham Festival Preview nights
- Thread starter harry
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trackside528
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I was at the preview night tonight above in Ashbourne. Good craic was had by all (well, by me anyway).
Panel consisted of Tony O'Hehir, Noel Meade, Jim Dreaper, Puppy Power, Andrew Lynch and some fella from the Irish Star.
Notes:
-Meade reported Monksland in good order and working nicely. Sounded more hopeful than confident.
-Very positive noises about Mount Benbullben in the Albert Bartlett. Not right after Navan race but back on song now.
-Boston Bob likely for the Albert Bartlett; Sous Les Cieux runs in the Sunalliance. Mullins plans can change by the hour though.
-Power and Lynch both against Grand Crus in the Sunalliance Chase on account of him being too free. Lynch was keen on First Lieutenant, reporting that he had schooled him and that he was now a savage jumper. Meade and Power keen on Sir Des Champs for the Sunalliance; consensus that SDC was a seriously talented but lazy yolk.
-General consensus that Sizing Europe would confirm Punchestown form with Big Zeb.
-Mullins bumper horses not good enough to win Cheltenham Bumper this year.
-Irish 4yo hurdlers separated by little, but below standard of English crop; Triumph a general waste of time.
The highlight of the night was a full video of the 1965 Gallaher Gold Cup at Sandown, with Arkle giving Mill House (in receipt of 16lbs) a savage hiding. Peter O'Sullevan did a voice-over of the commentary apparently as well, which was a nice touch.
Quote of the night (Jim Dreaper in explaining why there will be a rail around the statue of Arkle that they were raising funds for):
"I don't want people coming out of the Hunter's Moon at one in the morning thinking 'I'll go and ride Arkle.' Keep dreaming about Arkle; go and ride something else."
Panel consisted of Tony O'Hehir, Noel Meade, Jim Dreaper, Puppy Power, Andrew Lynch and some fella from the Irish Star.
Notes:
-Meade reported Monksland in good order and working nicely. Sounded more hopeful than confident.
-Very positive noises about Mount Benbullben in the Albert Bartlett. Not right after Navan race but back on song now.
-Boston Bob likely for the Albert Bartlett; Sous Les Cieux runs in the Sunalliance. Mullins plans can change by the hour though.
-Power and Lynch both against Grand Crus in the Sunalliance Chase on account of him being too free. Lynch was keen on First Lieutenant, reporting that he had schooled him and that he was now a savage jumper. Meade and Power keen on Sir Des Champs for the Sunalliance; consensus that SDC was a seriously talented but lazy yolk.
-General consensus that Sizing Europe would confirm Punchestown form with Big Zeb.
-Mullins bumper horses not good enough to win Cheltenham Bumper this year.
-Irish 4yo hurdlers separated by little, but below standard of English crop; Triumph a general waste of time.
The highlight of the night was a full video of the 1965 Gallaher Gold Cup at Sandown, with Arkle giving Mill House (in receipt of 16lbs) a savage hiding. Peter O'Sullevan did a voice-over of the commentary apparently as well, which was a nice touch.
Quote of the night (Jim Dreaper in explaining why there will be a rail around the statue of Arkle that they were raising funds for):
"I don't want people coming out of the Hunter's Moon at one in the morning thinking 'I'll go and ride Arkle.' Keep dreaming about Arkle; go and ride something else."
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bigeeps
At the Start
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Is this the preferred option over the Neptune ?
trackside528
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That was the word last night from Meade anyway. It was also pointed out that Mullins is woefully indecisive and probably won't make up his mind until the last minute.
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S
SlimChance
Guest
He's a judge.
Interesting , I always suspected Grand Crus participation in the GC was dependent on Kauto . If the latter turns up and jumps at his best at speed he could easily put a novice on the floor.
I do hope that whatever happens he does not run in the GC. It is too tough a race for a novice . Lanzarote and Gloria Victis for a start paid the ultimate price , Beefy was lucky not to .
I do hope that whatever happens he does not run in the GC. It is too tough a race for a novice . Lanzarote and Gloria Victis for a start paid the ultimate price , Beefy was lucky not to .
trudij
Senior Jockey
Its not that simple, and people who think it is are missing something pretty huge in the rough and tumbleness of racing. (IMO)
the Gold Cup is much less of a hard race than the Sun Alliance for any novice who knows his job - theres no more chance of him being killed in the GC than there is in the SA.
the Gold Cup is much less of a hard race than the Sun Alliance for any novice who knows his job - theres no more chance of him being killed in the GC than there is in the SA.
Totally agree, however there are some who will never accept this fact.
Nick Dundee was the last crack novice who met an injury in the Sun Alliance.
Gloria Victis could have sustained that injury in any race
DukeofMarmalade
At the Start
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Even more recently Citizen Vic looked a very nice prospect and was running a huge race in a good renewal.
AP is adament Glorai Victis went wrong on the flat, could have happend any time.
detroit orchid
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i was watching a re-run of the 2000 gold cup this evening and i think AP is right
he definately slowed down about 30/40 yards before the second last and AP didn't have time to do anything about it
granger
Senior Jockey
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Stillorgan Park Hotel , March 4th Hosted by Matt Chapman
Panel :
Barry eraghty ( BG )
Davy Russell ( DR)
Robbie Power ( RP)
Jessica Harrington ( JH)
Henry De Bromhead ( HDB)
Tony Mullins ( TM )
Noel O' Brien (NB) ... The Irish Jumpins Handicapper
Leo Powell ( LP) .. Irish Field
Barry orr ( BO) ...Betfair
The Supeme
NOB : Best rated in descending order , Steps , Tetlami , Simonsig , Gallileos Choice , Midnight Game , Darlan
JH : Steps To Freedom had a greaty summer and has has a break to freshen up , and should arrive in good shape
RP : Steps to Freedom will love the better ground and will go well fresh , there was no point running him over soft ground in the winter
TM : Gallileos Choice has beaten nothing, Steps To Freedom
BG : Tetlami is his horse with Steps To Freedom and darlan the dangers , Montbazon ew chance and Gallileos Choice is a lay
Davy Russell: will ride midnight game or Trifollium , but will be a ground decision , they love midnight games work in clonsutton . Make Your Mark will go to the Neptune , hints at hidden talent in Midnight Game .
Henry : Steps to f Freedom . Prospect wells ew , but then they say he will go to the county ! so Montbazon ew
Chappers : Colour Squadron
The Arkle
BG : Sprinter is like a ferrari amongst Fiats ..he cruises at 40 mph
DR : No ride in this and bar a deluge of rain Bog warriorr wont go . Sprinter Sacre , three runs three course records this term speaks for itself
NB : Sprinter is higher rated already than the normal Arkle winner , Peddlers likely to go to the jewson , Al Ferof to come home second
Henry : Al Ferof to place
Tony : cant have a Kings Theatre progeny over fences cause they are cowards and heartless over fences so that strikes out Cue Card and Menorah too
Champion Hurdle
Jessie : Oscars Well will improve , enjoy better ground and the pace
Robbie : Ground and pace will suit Oscars Well
Tony : Hurricane is a cert
Davy : Hurricane is a cert , go all in .
Barry : Hurricane to win , Oscars could place , Binocular could place
NB : Hurricane wins on ratings , Binocular could place
Leo : Hurricane Cert , Oscars wells the place
Barry Orr : Zarkander may interest punters wo Fly or the place
Neptune
BG : Simonsig is well and schooled well , has plenty of pace and is not slow , just thought that the neptune distance may be the better option
Noel O : Ratings Boston Bon 151 , Simonsig 146 , Monksland 144 Soux les Cieus 143 on what they have shown to date
Davy Russell: Simonsig is very good . Make Your mark would have to improve 10lbs and more on his last run to beat Boston Bob , but blamed the ground at Leopardstown when he emptied two out
Tony Mullins : Monksland looks like a bit of value on a line through Lyreen Legend
Jessie : simonsig to win
Robbie : Simonsig is better than he showed against Fingal Bay
Leo : Simonsig , Monksland eachway and will improve for the ground
Chappers : Make Your mark , he is a fan
RSA
Noel: Grand crus on 159 to win if he runs this, Join together 156 has to be noted , First Lieutenant is impressive and Sir Des Champs is an improver
Tony : Grands Crus will go to the Gold Cup he thinks . Bobs Worth is thus the best bet on the board , He cant have First Lieutenant . It is difficult to plcae horses and targets with teh jewson and mentions the likes of allee garde and call the police .
Davu Russelll: Does not know the Gigginstown pair race targets , First Lieutenant is very hard to get right he has som many issues , he is a big horse , but he is flying at the moment
Barry : Thinks Grand Crus is beatable , Bobs worth was not fit last time out and has had the breathing operation First lieutenant a danher and also respects Invictus
Leo : Grand Crus , Bobs worth , First Lieutenant
Robbie : Grand Crus is a lay of the meeting , he loves Sir Des Champs and thisnks the RSA is his race
Jessie : First Lieutenant on the ground and course form .
Chappers : Champion Court
Champion Chase
Henry : Sizing Europe is in good form and ready
Robbie Power : Big Zeb is not without his chance forget the last run
Barry G : SE is a worthy favourite , Zeb will act on the ground , and Finians needs to hold back more , but is working well
Davy : SE
Jessie : SE
Tony SE
Noel : Sizing is 11lbs clear
Leo : SE
Champion Bumper
Jessie : jezki will run and is a good horse
Tony : Mullins camp like champagne fever but he gets nervous and acts up watch him in the ring , its a hard race , Royal Guardsman impressed in his run . Moscow may want heavy ground
Robbie Power : Moscow mannon can handle the better ground . Jezki is am improving horse
Davy Russel : its hard , noted the Village Vic who is with Hobbs , does not like the mullins horses , he says the best bumper horses in Ireland are staying at home
Leo : Royal Guardsman
jewson
Barry : Henderson is sweet on solix , Champion Court is respected , Peddlers Cross if he goes for this is a good shout also Sir Des Champs
Davy Russell: Sir Des Champs is impressive but does not know the target for the Gigginstown horses including Degiftofdegab
Robbie Power : Sir Des Champs is the one for him , but thinks RSA , then Solix
Leo : Sir Des Champs
Tony : Sir Des Champs , For Non Stop has good form and could be good
Noel O Brien : Peddlers Cross !!!!!!!!!!
Chappers : Crystal Bonus , Nicholls likes him
Ryanair
Barry Geraghty : Riverside Thaetre has a big chance , Somersby and Medermit respected
Chappers : Rubi Light and Noble Prince cant win this
Davy Russell : Chappers is full of **** , Rubi Light and Nobel Price can win this . Nobl;e Prince has had a wind operation and will improve . Medermit could go to the Gold Cup
Noel O Brien : Somersby has a good chance on his curremt form Rubi Light improving and has class
Jessis : Rubi Light can win on better ground once this yaer and fancies it , Albertas Run next Then Riverside Thaeatre
Henry : Great Endevour at the price
Robbie : Albertas Run , Riverside Theatre
Leo : Rubi Light , Riverside Theatre , somersby
World Hurdle
Nobody really opposing big Bucks
Barry : Oscar Whisky will give it a try
Robbie : will get the leg up on Mourad
Noel O Brien : oscar Whiskey is only four pounds behind Big Bucks !!
Jessie : Big Bucks , Oscar Whiskey , Voler La Vedette ...also noted Thousand Stars
Barry Orr : So Young
Davy Russel : the rest are making up the numbers
Triumph Hurdle
Davy hates teh race , its rotten and the horses in it are shite , Jessie hates it and so does Robbie . Barry won it three times so he likes it . its a pin sticker and the form is no good
Noel O Brien syas Burrenbridge is the best of the Irish
Robbie Power : Shadow Catcher not good enough
Barry G : Grumeti , Baby Mix , Pearl swan
Jessie : stick a pin in the page
Davy : Stay in bed and dodge the bullets in this race
Albertt Bartlett
A proper National hunt race
Davy : Bostion Bob , may ride ipsos du berlais or Sea of Thunder . Rocky Creek wants it soft Brindisi Breeze is good too needs soft
Tony : Mount Benbulbengoing very well and Boston Bob for the Neptune
Noel : Boston Bob , Sea Of Thunder
Barry Orrr: Mount Benbulben Nap
Gold Cup
Robbie Power : Surprise on the cards , not teh top two , Burton Port , Synchronised
Henry : Long Run
Noel : top two are 17lbs clear . Long Run
Barry Geraghty : Burton Port is well improved .
Jessie : long Run , Burton Port , Synchronised
Tony : Long Run , Grand Crus
Davy Russell: Burton Port
Chapper : Captain Chris ....but they all laughed at him
200 Charity Bet
Leo : Monksland/Sprinter sacre
Noel : Boston Bob , wherever
Tony : Felix Younger
Henry : Sizing europe , Hurricane Fly Double
Robbie : steps To Freedom , Oscars wells ew
Barry : Sprinter Sacre
Davy : Hurricane fly , Sizing Europe , Boston Bon ( 3m) treble , watch Midnight Game
Jessi e : Steps to Freedom , Sprinter
Panel :
Barry eraghty ( BG )
Davy Russell ( DR)
Robbie Power ( RP)
Jessica Harrington ( JH)
Henry De Bromhead ( HDB)
Tony Mullins ( TM )
Noel O' Brien (NB) ... The Irish Jumpins Handicapper
Leo Powell ( LP) .. Irish Field
Barry orr ( BO) ...Betfair
The Supeme
NOB : Best rated in descending order , Steps , Tetlami , Simonsig , Gallileos Choice , Midnight Game , Darlan
JH : Steps To Freedom had a greaty summer and has has a break to freshen up , and should arrive in good shape
RP : Steps to Freedom will love the better ground and will go well fresh , there was no point running him over soft ground in the winter
TM : Gallileos Choice has beaten nothing, Steps To Freedom
BG : Tetlami is his horse with Steps To Freedom and darlan the dangers , Montbazon ew chance and Gallileos Choice is a lay
Davy Russell: will ride midnight game or Trifollium , but will be a ground decision , they love midnight games work in clonsutton . Make Your Mark will go to the Neptune , hints at hidden talent in Midnight Game .
Henry : Steps to f Freedom . Prospect wells ew , but then they say he will go to the county ! so Montbazon ew
Chappers : Colour Squadron
The Arkle
BG : Sprinter is like a ferrari amongst Fiats ..he cruises at 40 mph
DR : No ride in this and bar a deluge of rain Bog warriorr wont go . Sprinter Sacre , three runs three course records this term speaks for itself
NB : Sprinter is higher rated already than the normal Arkle winner , Peddlers likely to go to the jewson , Al Ferof to come home second
Henry : Al Ferof to place
Tony : cant have a Kings Theatre progeny over fences cause they are cowards and heartless over fences so that strikes out Cue Card and Menorah too
Champion Hurdle
Jessie : Oscars Well will improve , enjoy better ground and the pace
Robbie : Ground and pace will suit Oscars Well
Tony : Hurricane is a cert
Davy : Hurricane is a cert , go all in .
Barry : Hurricane to win , Oscars could place , Binocular could place
NB : Hurricane wins on ratings , Binocular could place
Leo : Hurricane Cert , Oscars wells the place
Barry Orr : Zarkander may interest punters wo Fly or the place
Neptune
BG : Simonsig is well and schooled well , has plenty of pace and is not slow , just thought that the neptune distance may be the better option
Noel O : Ratings Boston Bon 151 , Simonsig 146 , Monksland 144 Soux les Cieus 143 on what they have shown to date
Davy Russell: Simonsig is very good . Make Your mark would have to improve 10lbs and more on his last run to beat Boston Bob , but blamed the ground at Leopardstown when he emptied two out
Tony Mullins : Monksland looks like a bit of value on a line through Lyreen Legend
Jessie : simonsig to win
Robbie : Simonsig is better than he showed against Fingal Bay
Leo : Simonsig , Monksland eachway and will improve for the ground
Chappers : Make Your mark , he is a fan
RSA
Noel: Grand crus on 159 to win if he runs this, Join together 156 has to be noted , First Lieutenant is impressive and Sir Des Champs is an improver
Tony : Grands Crus will go to the Gold Cup he thinks . Bobs Worth is thus the best bet on the board , He cant have First Lieutenant . It is difficult to plcae horses and targets with teh jewson and mentions the likes of allee garde and call the police .
Davu Russelll: Does not know the Gigginstown pair race targets , First Lieutenant is very hard to get right he has som many issues , he is a big horse , but he is flying at the moment
Barry : Thinks Grand Crus is beatable , Bobs worth was not fit last time out and has had the breathing operation First lieutenant a danher and also respects Invictus
Leo : Grand Crus , Bobs worth , First Lieutenant
Robbie : Grand Crus is a lay of the meeting , he loves Sir Des Champs and thisnks the RSA is his race
Jessie : First Lieutenant on the ground and course form .
Chappers : Champion Court
Champion Chase
Henry : Sizing Europe is in good form and ready
Robbie Power : Big Zeb is not without his chance forget the last run
Barry G : SE is a worthy favourite , Zeb will act on the ground , and Finians needs to hold back more , but is working well
Davy : SE
Jessie : SE
Tony SE
Noel : Sizing is 11lbs clear
Leo : SE
Champion Bumper
Jessie : jezki will run and is a good horse
Tony : Mullins camp like champagne fever but he gets nervous and acts up watch him in the ring , its a hard race , Royal Guardsman impressed in his run . Moscow may want heavy ground
Robbie Power : Moscow mannon can handle the better ground . Jezki is am improving horse
Davy Russel : its hard , noted the Village Vic who is with Hobbs , does not like the mullins horses , he says the best bumper horses in Ireland are staying at home
Leo : Royal Guardsman
jewson
Barry : Henderson is sweet on solix , Champion Court is respected , Peddlers Cross if he goes for this is a good shout also Sir Des Champs
Davy Russell: Sir Des Champs is impressive but does not know the target for the Gigginstown horses including Degiftofdegab
Robbie Power : Sir Des Champs is the one for him , but thinks RSA , then Solix
Leo : Sir Des Champs
Tony : Sir Des Champs , For Non Stop has good form and could be good
Noel O Brien : Peddlers Cross !!!!!!!!!!
Chappers : Crystal Bonus , Nicholls likes him
Ryanair
Barry Geraghty : Riverside Thaetre has a big chance , Somersby and Medermit respected
Chappers : Rubi Light and Noble Prince cant win this
Davy Russell : Chappers is full of **** , Rubi Light and Nobel Price can win this . Nobl;e Prince has had a wind operation and will improve . Medermit could go to the Gold Cup
Noel O Brien : Somersby has a good chance on his curremt form Rubi Light improving and has class
Jessis : Rubi Light can win on better ground once this yaer and fancies it , Albertas Run next Then Riverside Thaeatre
Henry : Great Endevour at the price
Robbie : Albertas Run , Riverside Theatre
Leo : Rubi Light , Riverside Theatre , somersby
World Hurdle
Nobody really opposing big Bucks
Barry : Oscar Whisky will give it a try
Robbie : will get the leg up on Mourad
Noel O Brien : oscar Whiskey is only four pounds behind Big Bucks !!
Jessie : Big Bucks , Oscar Whiskey , Voler La Vedette ...also noted Thousand Stars
Barry Orr : So Young
Davy Russel : the rest are making up the numbers
Triumph Hurdle
Davy hates teh race , its rotten and the horses in it are shite , Jessie hates it and so does Robbie . Barry won it three times so he likes it . its a pin sticker and the form is no good
Noel O Brien syas Burrenbridge is the best of the Irish
Robbie Power : Shadow Catcher not good enough
Barry G : Grumeti , Baby Mix , Pearl swan
Jessie : stick a pin in the page
Davy : Stay in bed and dodge the bullets in this race
Albertt Bartlett
A proper National hunt race
Davy : Bostion Bob , may ride ipsos du berlais or Sea of Thunder . Rocky Creek wants it soft Brindisi Breeze is good too needs soft
Tony : Mount Benbulbengoing very well and Boston Bob for the Neptune
Noel : Boston Bob , Sea Of Thunder
Barry Orrr: Mount Benbulben Nap
Gold Cup
Robbie Power : Surprise on the cards , not teh top two , Burton Port , Synchronised
Henry : Long Run
Noel : top two are 17lbs clear . Long Run
Barry Geraghty : Burton Port is well improved .
Jessie : long Run , Burton Port , Synchronised
Tony : Long Run , Grand Crus
Davy Russell: Burton Port
Chapper : Captain Chris ....but they all laughed at him
200 Charity Bet
Leo : Monksland/Sprinter sacre
Noel : Boston Bob , wherever
Tony : Felix Younger
Henry : Sizing europe , Hurricane Fly Double
Robbie : steps To Freedom , Oscars wells ew
Barry : Sprinter Sacre
Davy : Hurricane fly , Sizing Europe , Boston Bon ( 3m) treble , watch Midnight Game
Jessi e : Steps to Freedom , Sprinter
Roddy Owen
At the Start
Shephers Crook,Aston Rowant,tonight
treetangle
At the Start
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2009
- Messages
- 290
What was the impression you got from what was said about Make Your Mark? I ask because on better ground I think he may well be the best of the Irish novices but he has hardly got a mention. His bumper win was as impressive as any in Ireland this season (he went near enough Champion Bumper favourite) and he couldn't have won much easier on his hurdling debut. He travelled like the best horse last time but didn't get home on ground that clearly doesn't suit.
It sounds as if the Jewson was considered the better option for Sir Des Champs - anyone suggest why Mullins appears to talking up RSA?
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Mullins wasn't that effusive about Make your Mark on the stable tours I've seen. He seems keener on Sous les Cieux.
I think he's always preferred the RSA over the Jewson for Sir des Champs but that wasn't really an option until Last Instalment went wrong.
I think he's always preferred the RSA over the Jewson for Sir des Champs but that wasn't really an option until Last Instalment went wrong.
Sorry but that is utter crap . The idea that a novice race - largely nowadays with small fields is a less hard race than the Gold Cup where they go much quicker and where the horses are much more experienced jumpers is twoddle. The rate of attrition for novices that try the championship race is clear enough .
Horses like Citizen Vic were killed by the nasty trap that was the second last on the old course. That hardly counts.
edgt
Senior Jockey
There is something alien to me of running young horses on ground that does not suit them. Most trainers can get them race fit at home and why slog the guts out of them on bad ground and then expect them to fly around Chel.on good . Captain Cee Bee and Go Native are two that kept their powder dry for the big day. So dont worry if your fast ground fancy has not been seen for a while.
On The Bridle
At the Start
Was going to go to Fermoy last night but reading the utter skitter that's these experts are coming out with put me off.:lol:
Bradys one was on in Monaghan last night, if I get talking to someone who was there il post it.
Naps were
John Cullen; Kuato Star
Peter Casey; Mount Benbulben
Michael Hourigan; Royal Gaurdsman
Willie Mullins; Sir Des Champs (Wherever he runs)
J Ward; Sizing/Sprinter/The Fly
T Martin; Saddlers Storm even though the intended target was Foxhunters
Frank Berry; Somersby
Dermot Weld; New Years Eve
H De Bromhead; Sizing/The Fly
Chapman; Rocky Creek, Balthazar King
Other bits I can pick up are that Brady wanted to get a good bet on for Charity with Powers on One Cool Shabra for the Fred Winter.....
Mullins thought that Champagne Fever was their best bumper horse but too slow for it, and would make up into a G1 chaser. Up the Beat jumps well and goes for a handicap...
Henry, Faster the ground the better for Sizing Oz.
I didnt go as I have been in the past and remember leaving it at 1am and the thing wasnt even over. It was a charity fundraiser, so it meant that there was a few races previewed, then a few races for a race night, a charity auction, then back to the race previews, more race night, then more auction then more race preview etc. Too much going on at the same night and attempting to put too much into one night.
Naps were
John Cullen; Kuato Star
Peter Casey; Mount Benbulben
Michael Hourigan; Royal Gaurdsman
Willie Mullins; Sir Des Champs (Wherever he runs)
J Ward; Sizing/Sprinter/The Fly
T Martin; Saddlers Storm even though the intended target was Foxhunters
Frank Berry; Somersby
Dermot Weld; New Years Eve
H De Bromhead; Sizing/The Fly
Chapman; Rocky Creek, Balthazar King
Other bits I can pick up are that Brady wanted to get a good bet on for Charity with Powers on One Cool Shabra for the Fred Winter.....
Mullins thought that Champagne Fever was their best bumper horse but too slow for it, and would make up into a G1 chaser. Up the Beat jumps well and goes for a handicap...
Henry, Faster the ground the better for Sizing Oz.
I didnt go as I have been in the past and remember leaving it at 1am and the thing wasnt even over. It was a charity fundraiser, so it meant that there was a few races previewed, then a few races for a race night, a charity auction, then back to the race previews, more race night, then more auction then more race preview etc. Too much going on at the same night and attempting to put too much into one night.
S
SlimChance
Guest
Did that clown get paid for that?