Cheltenham Gold Cup 2015

EC1 said:
no he isn't really..I can't see Tiggers having his bedroom wall papered in Bobsworth pattern..table lamp with a picture of Bobsworth on it...carpets with print of Bobsworth every square foot..mugs and plates with pictures of Bobsworth on..toilet paper with watermarks of Bobsworth running through it..wife with horses head on that looks like Bobsworth that she has to wear at bedtime

whereas i can see Grassy.............
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With a blow up hurricane fly . Or maybe his wife. I dunno
 
tiggers1972 said:
Oh he is, let's not do the facts shall we, how many Festival wins????? First horse since Flying Bolt to do bla bla?????
How many course wins?
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He's been a very good Festival horse but comparing modern day feats with the past isn't on really given the dilution of the meeting. I doubt BW could have handled SDC on good ground on the old course if the Jewson hadn't been introduced.
 
reet hard said:
Cue Card depends on his pace and slick jumping to see his rivals off, and would win nothing held up for a run. He set a strong pace in the KG but didn't last home because of it.
The notion that he'd stay the Gold Cup trip is nearly as daft as the one that Silviniaco Conti (the clear benefactor from the strong KG pace) doesn't.
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Maybe daft maybe not Reet.

Cast your mind back to the December 2011 and the International Hurdle at Cheltenham when cruising into the lead after the 2nd last then suddenly nothing and Menorah leaving him for dead.

How similar to that was his King George 2nd?

I doubt if it is a stamina issue with him and he has some sort of quirk about him that raises it's ugly head now and then.

Watching the King George again it was all so sudden......most horses stop gradually when stamina is running out but he stopped like shot in the same fashion he did back in 2011. That was very much reflected in running when he hit 1.1 in running and Sanctuaire shot out to 19.5.

It must be possible the soft ground and the way he was ridden just knocked the stuffing out of him and he's one of these horses when he gets tired his body gives in and he just folds up in a heap.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he got the trip in the Gold Cup especially if the ground was good.

Don't forget you are talking about a horse who won the Betfair Chase in soft ground over 3m 1f running on strongly at the finish with 2 Gold Cup winners and a King George winner in behind.
 
the betfair was short of 3 mile on a course where i wouldn't trust the clocks never mind the race distances...the betfair was run at a course that is stiffer than Kempton over supposedly a furlong further..but ran in about the same time as the KG...3m1f i don't think

its time that course was sorted out independently..proper distances measured and it made clear which course is which there..its a complete disgrace whats allowed to go on there

the misinformation at Haydock is totally believed by people as demonstrated by this Cue Card stays 3 miles stuff

he's electric at 2.5 mile...best make best of him at that trip imo
 
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Oh come on now. It wasn't half a mile short of the distance, if it was at all. How much was it at worst? Half a furlong? He was hardly hanging on at the end of it either. Of course he stays 3m
 
i never said it was half a mile short..i said he is best at 2.5

the times show it was possibly less of a test than the KG

but seeing as how the ground and distances at Haydock are a complete mystery we'll never know
 
I think it's very much a case of you never know until you try with Cue Card and make no mistake about the Tizzards they are as game as a pebble and will give it a go if possible.

If he were mines I wouldn't hesitate because he is such a classy animal he could pull it off.

Horses like Silver Buck, Desert Orchid and Kauto Star won Gold Cups none of whom were at their best over the trip but they had the same thing in common...........class! and Cue Card has plenty of that.

Would I back him to win a Gold Cup? Don't be silly :0)
 
EC1 said:
no he isn't really..I can't see Tiggers having his bedroom wall papered in Bobsworth pattern..table lamp with a picture of Bobsworth on it...carpets with print of Bobsworth every square foot..mugs and plates with pictures of Bobsworth on..toilet paper with watermarks of Bobsworth running through it..wife with horses head on that looks like Bobsworth that she has to wear at bedtime

whereas i can see Grassy.............
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:lol::lol:
 
not sure what you mean by class tbh..never have understood it ......a horse that can run faster longer i assume..well we know at the moment that CC runs faster for longer at 2.5 miles than any other horse..but when stretched to a full 3 miles..he doesn't run faster longer than any other horse..thats the facts really. The logical assumption then is that to run even further would mean he would run faster for less longer at 3m2f...

a bit like moving Bolt up to 400 metres..he gets beat..so we'll try him at 800 metres then
 
As HF is to Grasshopper so Champagne Fever is to me. I was taken by the horse when I first saw him, having been advised that he would be exceptional, and I've followed him ever since. I've had a decent bet at 20/1ew which is probably the correct price at this stage.
His defeat in the Arkle cost me an awfully large amount but I hope that that was a blip. I love his style of running, the exuberance of his jumping and what I perceive as his heart.

Some interesting and exciting times ahead methinks.
 
Fist
When you have a horse's profile fixed in your head, and you see him do something completely outside his previous form, the first thing you do is query that form, which is exactly how I felt when I saw Cue Card skip away from an ostensibly decent field at Haydock. Bear in mind this was a horse that didn't stay 3m previously, and looked likely to be outstayed by Captain Chris (hardly a 3miler himself) when coming down in the stiffest other test he'd faced, at Ascot.
It's fairly well documented that the Haydock race was short of the advertised distance and without meaningful sectionals, it's impossible to be dogmatic about the pace. However, there were 6 horses travelling well, in line, coming down the back 2nd time (suggesting they weren't taxed up to that point) and unsurprising that the 2 most adept at shorter distances prevailed, with the stronger stayers strung out like washing behind them.
In a nutshell, that's what happened at Haydock, and it was verified and rubber stamped when he capitulated off a stronger pace at Kempton. Might get away with it this year if he's allowed an easy lead against less than top-class opposition, but I'd certainly bet against it.
 
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EC1 said:
not sure what you mean by class tbh..never have understood it ......a horse that can run faster longer i assume..well we know at the moment that CC runs faster for longer at 2.5 miles than any other horse..but when stretched to a full 3 miles..he doesn't run faster longer than any other horse..thats the facts really. The logical assumption then is that to run even further would mean he would run faster for less longer at 3m2f...

a bit like moving Bolt up to 400 metres..he gets beat..so we'll try him at 800 metres then
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Class = above the norm that stands out like a sore head...Sprinter Sacre, Muhammad Ali, Arkle, Frankel, Bruce Lee, Tiger Woods, Pele and me of course :lol:

As you can see below No Class and Class
 

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reet hard said:
Fist
When you have a horse's profile fixed in your head, and you see him do something completely outside his previous form, the first thing you do is query that form, which is exactly how I felt when I saw Cue Card skip away from an ostensibly decent field at Haydock. Bear in mind this was a horse that didn't stay 3m previously, and looked likely to be outstayed by Captain Chris (hardly a 3miler himself) when coming down in the stiffest other test he'd faced, at Ascot.
It's fairly well documented that the Haydock race was short of the advertised distance and without meaningful sectionals, it's impossible to be dogmatic about the pace. However, there were 6 horses travelling well, in line, coming down the back 2nd time (suggesting they weren't taxed up to that point) and unsurprising that the 2 most adept at shorter distances prevailed, with the stronger stayers strung out like washing behind them.
In a nutshell, that's what happened at Haydock, and it was verified and rubber stamped when he capitulated off a stronger pace at Kempton. Might get away with it this year if he's allowed an easy lead against less than top-class opposition, but I'd certainly bet against it.
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But how far out of the norm for him was it. He'd won the Ryanair on softish ground running on strongly and looking like h could have gone much further.

I have no idea what you are talking about re the distance if you have a link I'd appreciate it. All I can find is one pundit saying he proved beyond a doubt he stayed 3 miles and further.

A far as Dynaste being more adept than the others at a shorter trip that is debatable in fast you're way of the mark. Dynaste was winning over 3 miles when he was 5 years old won a couple of nothing chases over 2m4f, was beat running on in the Jewson hasn't run over the trip since. The horse is a rock solid 3 miler who despite jumping level with Cue Card was outpointed and outstayed by the horse.

I'll stick to me guns and say he is quirky and you should keep an open mind no matter what the trip..............If memory serves me well I was kicking myself for backing Dynaste against him thinking he might not stay at Haydock.........you may suffer a similar fate be it in the King George or the Gold Cup..........I think this time I'll be having a saver on him.
 
Geez, Fist - things I do to educate you. :)

http://www.geegeez.co.uk/haydock-plans-a-stiffer-test-in-betfair-chase/
Even from that, it should be quite clear that KT guessed the distance, rather than measured it.

On to the replay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3Sa8e7cIQ
First thing to note is the start (on the crown of the top bend) is well in front of the normal 3m start (just past the winning post) making the race shorter; not longer.
Secondly, the temporary rail which reportedly extended the course can be quite clearly seen on the crown of the bottom bend, and is more like 20 yards further, rather than the reputed 120.
All this was discussed at length, on here, and elsewhere, and there was general agreement from the clockers (including Timeform) that the racetime showed it to be well short of the advertised distance. Even your mate Nicky was moved to say, after the race; "I always suspected this wasn´t the ideal race for \bBobs Worth\p. Even though it was on the outside track it was still more of a speed test and the result showed that".

Regarding Dynaste; his record of three wins (including a RyanAir) and a 2nd, from 4 attempts at 2.5m chases, shows he's rather more adept at the trip than the likes of Bobs Worth, Tidal Bay, Long Run and Silvianaco Conte, imo, anyway.
 
Dynaste and SC were having their first runs of the season as well.


I know he's a bit of a forgotten horse now but I still think Al Ferof is capable of winning a good race this year. He was disappointing last season but he never had his conditions and got injured in the Ryanair.
 
edgt said:
Lord Windemere wins Gold Cup again .
Spring Heeled wins Grand National.
Flemenstar wins King George if A J Martin has him back.
The rest can fight over the other races!
If only life could be so simple !!!
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Flemmo is reported to be well and due back to the track in December. I would think he would need a prep before a KG prep so will need two races in four weeks or so
 
Some joke Don Cossack being cut into 20's after winning an egg and spoon race today.The three horses directly behind him-Loosen My Load a shadow of the horse he was -Alderwood-non stayer-Roi du Mee blatantly unfit.
 
Hope this format works, but this is the entry for the Nicholson. If some of these are taken-up, it's a November Gold Cup.

[TABLE="class: cardGrid cardGl, width: 635"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2"]
NO.​
[/TH]
[TH]
HORSE​
[/TH]
[TH="class: c, align: center"]AGE[/TH]
[TH]
WGT​
[/TH]
[TH]
TRAINER RTF%​
[/TH]
[TH]
JOCKEY​
[/TH]
[TH="class: r, align: right"]OR[/TH]
[TH="class: r, align: right"]TS[/TH]
[TH="class: r, align: right"]RPR[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]4-B43[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Alderwood16[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Thomas Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]149[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]110[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]156[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]F2-41P[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Baily Green28[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]M F Morris[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]151[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]115[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]161[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]114F-2[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Ballycasey186[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]W P Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]153[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]135[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]160[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]112F-4[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Black Thunder22
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Paul Nicholls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]137[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]161[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]1/615-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Bobs Worth232
distance-d.gif
distance-bf.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Nicky Henderson[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]142[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]171[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]1661-1[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Boston Bob185
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]W P Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]164[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]152[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]169[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]1R12P-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Bury Parade189[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Paul Nicholls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]141[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]164[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]21U6-1[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Carlingford Lough186
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]John E Kiely[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]155[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]138[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]162[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]132-6[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Champagne Fever184
distance-d.gif
distance-bf.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]W P Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]156[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]153[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]165[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]2F2-41[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Don Cossack16[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Gordon Elliott[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]151[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]139[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]159[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]4234-2[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]First Lieutenant185
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]M F Morris[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]161[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]142[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]169[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]364100[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Klepht20[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Thomas Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]140[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]137[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]148[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]556-6[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Lyreen Legend185[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]D T Hughes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]155[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]139[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]169[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]6112-8[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]On His Own185
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]W P Mullins[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]164[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]147[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]174[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]1P/33-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Realt Mor356
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Gordon Elliott[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]145[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]122[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]151[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]41-212[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Road To Riches28
distance-d.gif
distance-bf.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Noel Meade[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]160[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]153[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]169[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]3/225-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Rocky Creek210
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Paul Nicholls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]132[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]168[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]27P4-4[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Roi Du Mee16
distance-cd.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Gordon Elliott[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]152[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]59[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]158[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]12P24-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Rolling Aces189
distance-c.gif
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Paul Nicholls[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]131[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]161[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]12131- [/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Tammys Hill232
distance-c.gif
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD]11-10[/TD]
[TD]Liam Lennon[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]135[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[TD="class: r, align: right"]—[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cardItemInfo, colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cr"]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]3P121-[/TD]
[TD="class: h"]Ma Filleule211
distance-d.gif
[/TD]
[TD="class: c, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD]11-3[/TD]
[TD]Nicky Henderson[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
not a bad entry list

Ballycasey won't stay

Boston Bob would be interesting

Carlingford is tough out and has a G1 in him

FL not one i'd backif it came up soft. Think his best days are gone

Champagne going for JN, so this unlikely i'd say
 
Sorry, Granger....this is the entry-list for the JN Wines ('Nicholson' a case of old-habits on my part).
 
Has anyone had a dabble at someone at big odds? Or think there is one who could gatecrash the party?
 
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