Coral Eclipse Stakes

Take a look at the replay again, Aidan and watch STS's head cock as RVW comes into his rear view mirror - sorry but he was toying with him as he won with a fair bit in hand. That colt does just as much as he needs to - he's a clever horse who looks after himself and doesn't waste his energy on being overly flamboyant.

Bet Coolmore are spitting blood he's not theirs!!!
 
Songsheet said:
Take a look at the replay again, Aidan and watch STS's head cock as RVW comes into his rear view mirror
Click to expand...

I think he cocked his head wondering what direction RVW was going to lurch! He clearly won it well, very well indeed but to me he had a hard enough race doing it....another reason to by pass the King George.

If he "toyed" with the opposition...how would you describe the victories of Montjeu, Zarkava, etc...that's what I define as toying with the opposition.

I'd be interested to know the Betfair prices up the straight?
 
Last edited:
Posting from the stand overlooking the winning post. What a sight that was. Reminds me of Rock of Gibraltar, bombproof and always one step ahead. His owner fainted whilst waiting for him (he's ok now I think). I don't blame him.
 
I reckon that race probably took more out of RVW than it did Sea The Stars.

The type of race where the winner who's a champion goes on and the rest never come back the same.

Cracking race, i've no shame in saying I wanted STS to win as like many am fond of the horse.
 
davidjohnson said:
Can only speculate at what stages, but I think Sea The Stars went as big as 2.76 whilst Rip Van Winkle was as low as either 2.0 or 2.1.
Click to expand...

which proves little except that RVW flattered to decieve

what gets me about STS is that each time he has won he hasn't looked a natural at any distance..its like he just does what is needed to suit..he is something special I think

he certainly looked a stayer today rather than a 8/10f horse

I really would like to see RVW in another 10f race without him
 
Melendez said:
The 3 year olds are better than I thought they were. RVW looks a 125+ horse and was flattered to get as close as he did, everything was set up for him.
Click to expand...

Haven't some of us been trying to say since last autumn that this was a special crop? :)
 
OK, here's my provisional take on the race.

Steele Tango and Jukebox Jury came into the race on the same OR (110). I had them both on 112. Cima De Triomphe was OR116; I had it on 118. Luca Cumani was quoted as opining that CDT had improved since Sandown. With JJ on the comeback from disappointment and ST generally consistent, I’d rate the race via the latter on 112. It makes CDT (3¾ lengths ahead) 7lbs better, on 119. Sounds about right, doesn’t it?

Conduit was 5 lengths (9lbs) in front of CDT, putting him on 128. RPR had him on 127 for his US race, as I mentioned earlier, and you’d expect him to improve as the season progresses. I don’t have a problem with this high figure.

So we come to the big two. Rip Van Winkle was 4½ lengths (8lbs) in front of Conduit, which equates to a rating of 136. And Sea The Stars was another length (2lbs) ahead, which equates to 138.

Normally when figures look too good to be true they usually are but I can’t help thinking this race was the real deal. I was under that very impression as it unfolded live up the straight. This is our Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef: two superstars in one generation.

Sea The Stars certainly looked to have a slightly easier race than Rip Van Winkle but you can’t have had an ‘easy’ and run to 138. To suggest the winner was toying with the runner-up is a gross exaggeration. I’d never expect the runner-up to beat the winner again if both are at the top of their game but that doesn’t really matter. Let’s hope they take different routes from now on and let’s see them destroy the other older horses.

I’m 53. I’ve been waiting almost a generation to witness such brilliance in two 3yos.

I can die happy.
 
Desert Orchid said:
OK, here's my provisional take on the race.

Steele Tango and Jukebox Jury came into the race on the same OR (110). I had them both on 112. Cima De Triomphe was OR116; I had it on 118. Luca Cumani was quoted as opining that CDT had improved since Sandown. With JJ on the comeback from disappointment and ST generally consistent, I’d rate the race via the latter on 112. It makes CDT (3¾ lengths ahead) 7lbs better, on 119. Sounds about right, doesn’t it?

Conduit was 5 lengths (9lbs) in front of CDT, putting him on 128. RPR had him on 127 for his US race, as I mentioned earlier, and you’d expect him to improve as the season progresses. I don’t have a problem with this high figure.

So we come to the big two. Rip Van Winkle was 4½ lengths (8lbs) in front of Conduit, which equates to a rating of 136. And Sea The Stars was another length (2lbs) ahead, which equates to 138.

Normally when figures look too good to be true they usually are but I can’t help thinking this race was the real deal. I was under that very impression as it unfolded live up the straight. This is our Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef: two superstars in one generation.

Sea The Stars certainly looked to have a slightly easier race than Rip Van Winkle but you can’t have had an ‘easy’ and run to 138. To suggest the winner was toying with the runner-up is a gross exaggeration. I’d never expect the runner-up to beat the winner again if both are at the top of their game but that doesn’t really matter. Let’s hope they take different routes from now on and let’s see them destroy the other older horses.

I’m 53. I’ve been waiting almost a generation to witness such brilliance in two 3yos.

I can die happy.
Click to expand...

I will reserve judgement until I know the pace was suitable for the stayers
 
I've done a provisional time check on races 2-5 and it backs up the figures.

The Eclipse was 3.30s faster than the old Standard Time (which tends to be faster than the current RP Standard), so it was an immense performance on the clock too. It works out at 139 on my figures (with wfa). My GA for the round track is -0.26 spf.
 
It's nearly a year since Rip van Winkle won a race. This is his best finishing position since 24th July 2008. Good horse, but made to look better by finishing 2nd today to Sea The Stars.
 
The race looks very much like last year's King George, the distance back to the third makes it very much a rate it what you like kind of performance from the first 2 with nothing at all holding the race down in behind. However the problem horse could be the second, who in similar fashion to Papal Bull, probably keeps something back for himself, and a strongly run race and a top-class rival to chase has coaxed him into showing more than he has under less ideal conditions previously. Comparing the time of the 2 10f races seems pointless given the gallop of the handicap, but taking into account the other round course times, it still looks an exceptional performance. I think the first 2 have put up top class performances, in the low to mid 130's category on the timeform scale, but whether I'd fancy the runner-up to repeat this form is far from assured.
 
It was certainly the fastest Eclipse in the last 40 years. That's as far back as the web page I found goes. It must be one of the fastest in the entire history of the race.
 
Sandown
04.07.09

94 IALYSOS
96 ACROSTIC
75 STRAWBERRYDAIQUIRI
67 CYFLYMDER
130 SEA THE STARS (no wfa added)

Going: Good/Firm (+22 lb per mile)

its a big speed figure - one of the best I've seen whilst rating

if a time related wfa figure was added I would add an extra 4 lbs to that..I prefer the raw rating mesen

a clockbuster
 
Last edited:
Another Nashwan isnt he? Was a pleasure to be there and anyone with a chance to see this horse for real must do so. he is an absolutely beautiful animal with a bit of that arrogance and character that these great horses seem to have. Real buzz in pre parade ring when he appeared today

A great great horse. But I would worry about RVW's resolution myself. STS combatted the fact that his slight idling in front is definately not ideal for Sandown (fatal really) in great style.
 
I would agree EC. Very first impression live was that he would have relished further. The fact that hes won a good guineas....well...as you say, thats something special indeed
 
I made Sea The Stars 111.70 and Fame & Glory 110.29 for his Irish Derby. However, STS was carrying 4Ibs less and would adjust to 109.47 off 9.0 (there is an issue of trip of course making the comparison questionable). I'd probably make F&G about 0.75L's faster, but that is likely to prove immaterial given that the Arc is their only conceivable meeting.

I tried posting some thoughts up on RVW earlier but lost connectivity. Suffice to say, I thought Sandown would suit him better, given that he seems to get easily unbalanced, and where as Sandown has an uphill finish, the ground starts to rise from about 2.5F's out and remains steady(ish) in terms of gradient. Alright there's a slightly flatter part on the hill before it rises again, but I reckon it's sudden changes that unbalance him. I've suspected that with a flat, uncambered, and straight finish of about 5F's which would allow him to 'crank up', York would be his ideal track, but for such time as STS remains healthy and campaigned at this trip, it's difficult to see him making any inroads into a 3-0 scoreline. I'd still be thinking Juddmonte for RVW, and taking a chance that the ground comes into a play a bit
 
Nefertiti said:
By the way, does anyone else think RVW shies away from the whip? He seemed to go straight enough before the whip was applied.
Click to expand...

I think the comments being aimed at RVW here are similar to those applied to Dylan Thomas after Manduro beat him in the POW. Both are/were top class animals just beaten by better ones.

And comparing RVW to Papal Bull is bang out of order.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top