Coral Eclipse

not being entirely serious Grey...but i dont buy the undercooked excuse myself. Trainers can make mistakes and it is a relatively new horse to him, but im not convinced that with his attention to detail and experience this washes
 
I don't believe SYT was undercooked at Ascot. Following a poor run, AOB will always try to blame himself rather than accept the horse wasn't good enough on the day.

I'd imagine it has quite a bit to do with talking up the horse's future value at stud.

With regard to the Eclipse, I think he'll win. Not necessarily through improvement from Ascot, just through better tactics and a paucity of good opposition. Can't get excited about Workforce over 10f, and the rest are pretty average for a G1.

Also, whilst I think SYT is the likeliest winner, I certainly wouldn't rush to take 5-4.
 
clivex said:
not being entirely serious Grey...but i dont buy the undercooked excuse myself. Trainers can make mistakes and it is a relatively new horse to him, but im not convinced that with his attention to detail and experience this washes
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Fair enough, it's your choice whether to believe or not, and I might be in the same camp, but there's a long way to go to the big pots at the end of the season.
 
In fairness he should improve a bit given that he has been trained by a doddery old git who shoots his mouth off without knowing what hes saying, spends hours stumbling around the gallops without a clue where he is and stinks of piss
 
Bar the Bull said:
Confront is due to make the pace for Workforce. I don't think Stoute would duck SYT a second time.
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Even if conditions were unsuitable? Workforce wouldn't be avoiding anyone in the Arc. Why not duck this race if conditions don't suit?
 
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Bar the Bull said:
Fair enough. I suppose if it is a dry week, he might skip it. But I believe there is a fair bit of rain over the next 24 hours for the London area. Then mainly dry up to the race.
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You see I'm wondering if this is factored into what appears to be a quite generous 7/4 (assuming you can get it) on Workforce - i.e. that he might not take part.
 
Ask Ryan - he's ridden them both!

SYT still to show he's good enough over here.
Workforce more to my liking - Derby & Arc might not compare re Eclipse distance but you have to be some horse to win both, esp. the Arc. Not as if it's a local contest ... unlike down under, where SYT's form lies.
What do you think is a flat horse's optimum age at 10f/12f ...? Workforce is 4 months younger than SYT.
Can't see Workforce losing to SYT.
 
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Bar the Bull said:
In which case 5/4 for So You Think would be the price of the century. I think he will win anyway, but he is a certainty if he has just Snow Fairy and Sri Putra to beat.
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The doubt of Workforce not running may be factored in, but the actuality would probably see SYT go even shorter. At even money or odds on I actually would prefer to be on Snow Fairy and Sri Putra than the horse Rewilding beat at the trip.
 
Soary Stars said:
However, it's not Galileo at 5/2 in his Derby (my biggest bet & nailed on) - I doubt I'll bet.

Sorry about the historical after-timing - won't mention it again!
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Galileo was 11/4 in the Derby. If you're going to after-time ten years after the event you'd be expected to at least know the details.
 
SteveM said:
You see I'm wondering if this is factored into what appears to be a quite generous 7/4 (assuming you can get it) on Workforce - i.e. that he might not take part.
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I think the price has nothing to do with the possibility of Workforce running. The following should be noted:

Workforce was weak in the Derby market.
Workforce was weak in the Arc market.
Workforce was relatively weak/taken on by bookmakers at Sandown this season hitting 13/8 in a place in the morning.
So You Think was a monumental gamble at the 1/2 with Ladbrokes at Royal Ascot. It was similar to Kauto Star type support at Cheltenham over the years.

As a bookmaker you have to make So You Think favourite. Why lay him at 11/8 when you can get him at EVS without trying. Workforce is the value but don't think they're is anything factored in to his price other than market supply and demand. Most books will have Workforce as a winner come race time unless they look to get him. Therefore 7/4 might get bigger.


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SYT got beat by a 12f horse last time..so isn't a 10f horse himself..WF is a better horse than Rewilding and will also beat SYT..imo

if its fast ground..i wouldn't be running WF though
 
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Workforce for me - Snow Fairy not to be underestimated. If Dunlop has her in Ouija Board form she could surprise a lot .

Shows the quality of Ryan Moore that he would be the first choice to ride any of the front three.

SYT may have run below par at Ascot but Workforce mullered Rewilding as a three year old and then won the Arc - he then beat a confirmed mudlark at Sandown giving him weight and poor Poet seems absolutely knackered by taking him on .
 
Rewilding has improved a hell of a lot since that Derby. There wouldn't be much between them if they met over 12f now.
 
well..i'm going to throw a curved ball and say that Cape Blanco got a lovely racecourse blow for this last time:)

he is arguably the best 10f horse in the race..he has beat WF over that trip and has shown himself to be as hard as nails on the day over 10..not a 12f horse imo..which i argued last year before the Irish Champion.

if this horse has been aimed at this..stable throwing folk off with that nonsense front running stuff last time..at 25/1..i'll take the chance i think
 
Gearoid said:
Galileo was 11/4 in the Derby. If you're going to after-time ten years after the event you'd be expected to at least know the details.
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I can't supply the brain work if you don't even try.
Opened 9/4 touched 3/1.
There you are - try reading a little more widely.
 
20/1 with William Hill best now EC1. On his Irish Champion Stakes form he's a big price I suppose.
 
Why would they be throwing folk off, EC1? So they can get a better price next time? A lower mark when he goes into handicaps?
 
Grey said:
Why would they be throwing folk off, EC1? So they can get a better price next time? A lower mark when he goes into handicaps?
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they like a bet don't they?..OTB were saying other day that all AOB's that were backed were winning

it weren't a bad pipeopener last time..a quick speed exercise

plus it has thrwon everyone off..hence price
 
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Soary Stars said:
I can't supply the brain work if you don't even try.
Opened 9/4 touched 3/1.
There you are - try reading a little more widely.
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Are you seriously going to argue a point about a race 10 years ago? He was returned 11/4. He was also freely available at 7/2 on the run up to the race. Did it take you until the opening show to realise it was a 'certainty'?
 
Gearoid said:
Are you seriously going to argue a point about a race 10 years ago? He was returned 11/4. He was also freely available at 7/2 on the run up to the race. Did it take you until the opening show to realise it was a 'certainty'?
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Oh grow up. The point has passed & you were wrong.
 
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