Coral Eclipse

I think its quite clear that when a lesson can be learned from the past..its hard for some people to accept it..the trainerform is not relevant..or Harbinger would have been beaten last year..due to Stoute..then being in even worse form with an age group he usually excels with

i would be more worried about fast ground for WF..which will probably cause him to run a stone under his best...and make SYT a 1.1 shot
 
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I remember Dubai Millennium starting at a redonkulous price for the POW largely because Godolphin were in poor form at the time. If a trainer has a 130+ tool in his stable the form of his or her lesser lights is irrelevant. This is a race I just want to enjoy for the spectacle but the 2/1 is too big.
 
Euronymous said:
I remember Dubai Millennium starting at a redonkulous price for the POW largely because Godolphin were in poor form at the time. If a trainer has a 130+ tool in his stable the form of his or her lesser lights is irrelevant. This is a race I just want to enjoy for the spectacle but the 2/1 is too big.
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spot on

its also a fact that this month Stoute is in BETTER form with his older horses than in July last year when his 130+ horse won the KG..his record this month with older horses is 2/12 - 17% +2.5 lsp.
 
when Harbinger won the KG and the odds on favorite run last.


the stable form is a concern for me, and the distance the same, the race looks like panning for an easy win of the australian horse.
 
sunybay said:
when Harbinger won the KG and the odds on favorite run last.


the stable form is a concern for me, and the distance the same, the race looks like panning for an easy win of the australian horse.
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WF ran below form because he didn't get his ground

SYT is no more than a 126 horse..horses at that level don't win G1's easily..he may win..but it won't be easy..if the ground is fast then the filly..not WF... will give him a race..particularly as the pace will be very strong which will suit SF well

lets see what the ground is..its so key here imo
 
in the RPR scale or similar he is better than 130 for me and is a horse more likely to give his best than the other and will be better suited by the distance
 
about stable form

it is especially worrying the fact he is Stoute, you dont mind with Channon operating ina 3% but a stable like a stoute who use to run to 30% when things were going ok, it is very significant how the winners are not coming for them in any division.
 
sunybay said:
in the RPR scale or similar he is better than 130 for me and is a horse more likely to give his best than the other and will be better suited by the distance
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Maybe, but I've watched his wins in Australia and I can't believe any of the horses he has beat could hold a candle to Workforce. Until he wins a Group 1 in Europe he has to be taken on at really short odds. It also needs pointing out that a fair few top class 12f animals have won the Eclipse.
 
Euronymous said:
Maybe, but I've watched his wins in Australia and I can't believe any of the horses he has beat could hold a candle to Workforce. Until he wins a Group 1 in Europe he has to be taken on at really short odds. It also needs pointing out that a fair few top class 12f animals have won the Eclipse.
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its interesting that AOB hasn't entered any other horses..I don't think AOB wants a strong run race..then have to face that uphill finish.

the main horse in this race is the pacemaker..if he gets it right and the 12f animals sit in the right position i can see SYT flattening out as he did at Ascot..you can't afford to flatten out when running uphill with two confirmed stayers on your tail

pace will decide the race..done right and SYT will get beat imo
 
sunybay said:
about stable form

it is especially worrying the fact he is Stoute, you dont mind with Channon operating ina 3% but a stable like a stoute who use to run to 30% when things were going ok, it is very significant how the winners are not coming for them in any division.
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17% with a lsp for his older horses is quite alright

stableform is a more important pointer with smaller stables imo..and even then..the reading of it is near on a black art

many times Johnston has started big meetings with shit % beforehand and then gets 3 and 4 winners at said meeting

if i were Stoute with a horse as high profile..future money wise...and i genuinely thought my horse was going to run poor due to Stableform..i wouldn't run it
 
It's the biggest match we have had in a long time. Forget Haye V Clitch-KO the real heavyweights are in Sandown. No question Workforce is the one to be with. He was seriously impressive at Sandown under a penalty and has nothing to fear from a hnrse that needs 3 runs to get fully fit.
 
Will be there tomorrow

Must admit its not often you would expect to see a derby and arc winner at much longer odds than a horse that was beaten in its first real group one test (we will discount his runs against kangeroos for now)
 
I was emphatic SYT is massively overrated prior to Ascot.

It seems people will listen to O'Brien rather than the evidence of their own eyes.

Workforce is 4-5 pounds better than Rewilding, and more suited to 10 furlong than the Godolphin horse.

The market is upside down. What an opportunity.
 
Workforce was 4/5 lb better than Rewilding. Are we in danger of failing to give him due credit for an improved performance? The first 2 were well clear at Ascot after all. If anything, So You Think proved at Ascot he's as good as he had been rated previously.

He may have the edge at 10f on drying ground, but I'd rather back Workforce at the prices and have done so, because in terms of ability and achievement at their best, there's nothing between them.
 
davidjohnson said:
He may have the edge at 10f on drying ground, but I'd rather back Workforce at the prices and have done so, because in terms of ability and achievement at their best, there's nothing between them.
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Couldn't have summed it up any better myself.
 
The first 2 were well clear at Ascot after all
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Unless Planteur did run up to his best form (seems unlikely) then they should have been. Rewilding has surely improved since the derby. If he hadnt, then SYT should be hammered tomorrow. Rewilding needs to have improved a bloody hell of a lot to justify the market here.

Has anyone considered that a six raced four year old in the hands of probably the best trainer around for developing horses with age might just be improving too?
 
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clivex said:
Unless Planteur did run up to his best form (seems unlikely) then they should have been. Rewilding has surely improved since the derby. If he hadnt, then SYT should be hammered tomorrow. Rewilding needs to have improved a bloody hell of a lot to justify the market here.

Has anyone considered that a six raced four year old in the hands of probably the best trainer around for developing horses with age might just be improving too?
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Not possible Clive, because said trainer doesn't talk horseshit in the press when one of his are beaten or about to run..
 
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