Derby/ Oaks

Disappointing news all round really no Breeders and he doesn't seem too keen on training either of them for the Arc because of the possibility of soft ground.

No mention of the King George either.

Eclipse Judmonte and Champion Stakes are probably the best chances they have to keep him unbeaten


For me that's like UDS running in the Tingle Creek and the VC then opting out of the QMCC
 
Frankel said:
125 for the winner - Unofficial.
Click to expand...

Sea the Stars was rated 124 going into the Eclipse...........make of that what you like.

Can't see Gleneagles stepping up to 10f so he may be stuck on that rating for some time.

Name the second fav for the eclipse you win a lollypop
 
Tanlic said:
Sea the Stars was rated 124 going into the Eclipse...........make of that what you like.

Can't see Gleneagles stepping up to 10f so he may be stuck on that rating for some time.

Name the second fav for the eclipse you win a lollypop
Click to expand...

Highland Reel
 
Tanlic said:
Sea the Stars was rated 124 going into the Eclipse...........make of that what you like.

Can't see Gleneagles stepping up to 10f so he may be stuck on that rating for some time.

Name the second fav for the eclipse you win a lollypop
Click to expand...

Sea The Stars was best at 10f. His Eclipse win miles better than his Guineas/Derby victories.

Surely New Bay is second fav
 
Euronymous said:
Sea The Stars was best at 10f. His Eclipse win miles better than his Guineas/Derby victories.

Surely New Bay is second fav
Click to expand...

I've always thought STS better at 12f, and he got lucky in the Eclipse in that he met a strong pace on the day (similarly his subsequent 10f wins). Looked cooked at one stage, by a Rip Van Winkle who ultimately proved better given a lesser test. Didn't beat much in the Arc - which was hardly his fault - but, after a troubled passage throughout, did it far more convincingly than any of his races over shorter.
The only reason I mention all this, is (imo) Golden Horn's similar in a lot of respects, and will need to be equally fortunate to add an Eclipse to his record.
 
IMVHO The biggest insult to any Arc winner I've come across was when Timeform stated Sea the Stars had run below par in the Arc.

Youmzai was a real Arc horse having finished 2nd to the brilliant Zarkava and to Dylan Thomas.

I reckon the Timeform statement came about because they underestimated the worth of Zarkava's win over Youmzain and both horses deserved a higher rating than Timeofrm allocated them.

Not the first time that they have made a horlicks of things and come away with rating punters totally disagree with.

All I remember is people writing in TRF saying his performacne was brilliant and being pretty much gobsmacked when Timeform saying it wasn't
 
I think sea the stars was a much better horse at 10f at 12f

the level showed in the eclipse and irish champion was much higher than arc and derby
 
STS was a brilliant horse full stop. His Arc win was brilliant considering how it took him a while to settle. Then took the gap and put it to bed. Convinced he could have won a leger after that.

Still, his Eclipse for me was superb. RIP at his very best at least woke him up. Commentary from Aussie Jim superb too.
 
sunybay said:
My figures for the races of sea the stars were

derby. 128
arc. 129

eclipse. 138
irish CH. 137
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is STS ran the race of his life halfway through his 3yo season, and bounced up and down in form in every race afterwards?:)
 
RVW made him pull more out than any other opponent. Do doubt if a felllow top notcher had met him in the Arc he'd have pulled more out
 
Euronymous said:
RVW made him pull more out than any other opponent. Do doubt if a felllow top notcher had met him in the Arc he'd have pulled more out
Click to expand...

absolutely spot on Euro

when he ran against RVW it was the only time i really thought he might get caught..RVW pushed him to show what he was really worth..and he produced a rating actually in line with what he was really worth.

i still think his run in the Arc was exceptional with how he won it though..and it was at the end of a long season...maybe had he met a RVW in an Arc run in August he would have put up a mid 130's then. He was a horse that beat whatever was there to be beat..no matter what rating the oppo had.

i do agree with Tanlic..whenever i hear he didn't run to his best in the arc it seems like its demeaning a great performance..a performance where i didn't care what rating he ran to.,..i just wanted him to win
 
sunybay said:
My figures for the races of sea the stars were

derby. 128
arc. 129

eclipse. 138
irish CH. 137
Click to expand...

You got me bamboozled there Suny.

In the Irish CH he beat Fame and Glory by 2 1/2 lengths and in the Derby by 1 3/4 lengths so why such a difference in your rating.

Surely the longer the trip the more suitable for Fame and Glory ?

Plus Master Craftsmen 3rd in the Irish CH was without a doubt not a 10f horse..he did win at 10f at Dundalk but he could walk faster than the rivals he beat could that day

My opinion always was there wasn't any rival he beat over 10f you could say was a true 10f horse

Youmzain on the other hand was a true 10f horse
 
Last edited:
Fame and Glory was totally disadvantaged by the sedate pace they went at Epsom that day. The Irish Champion has a history of going to top drawer 12f animals so his improved effort from Epsom is not a head scratcher for me (Suave Dancer's IC run was arguably better than his Arc)
 
EC1 said:
My view is this is a pretty smart animal..might be wrong..don't really care tbh..just sharing a view..doubt anyone will take much notice anyway..thats if anyone actually reads the post
Click to expand...

Hi, EC1.As it goes I once read a piece of yours some years ago that always stuck with me as one of the most informative pieces I've ever read on horse racing anywhere online.Who in tarnation am I ? Well for a long time I've only been a member of a little forum called Ohracing under the username Broadsword.You popped in there to do a review on some of the action at Cheltenham Festival the year Our Connor won the triumph I don't know whether you'd recall doing the piece.At the time I was coming off the back of one of the best spells I've ever had punting and getting to a point where I thought I was fairly knowledgeable.After reading your posts on there it made me feel like nothing more than a complete guesser or as some had suggested just a desperate chancer.Just as quickly as you appeared on there,you disappeared again much to my disappointment and not knowing you were a member of this forum until recently I haven't had the privilege of reading your thoughts.

I personally think any forum that has you as a regular contributor is blessed to have you and I shall certainly be popping in on a regular basis to read your thoughts and also see if Talking Horses has anyone else of your standards airing their views.

I'd only came to register this week but it appeared that when trying to register that I was already registered from some years ago but memory fails me as to when or why I did so and I certainly can't remember ever reading through any of the posts back then or I'm sure I'd have stepped out of the shadows earlier.

Keep up the good work EC1.
 
Danny said:
Hi, EC1.As it goes I once read a piece of yours some years ago that always stuck with me as one of the most informative pieces I've ever read on horse racing anywhere online.Who in tarnation am I ? Well for a long time I've only been a member of a little forum called Ohracing under the username Broadsword.You popped in there to do a review on some of the action at Cheltenham Festival the year Our Connor won the triumph I don't know whether you'd recall doing the piece.At the time I was coming off the back of one of the best spells I've ever had punting and getting to a point where I thought I was fairly knowledgeable.After reading your posts on there it made me feel like nothing more than a complete guesser or as some had suggested just a desperate chancer.Just as quickly as you appeared on there,you disappeared again much to my disappointment and not knowing you were a member of this forum until recently I haven't had the privilege of reading your thoughts.

I personally think any forum that has you as a regular contributor is blessed to have you and I shall certainly be popping in on a regular basis to read your thoughts and also see if Talking Horses has anyone else of your standards airing their views.

I'd only came to register this week but it appeared that when trying to register that I was already registered from some years ago but memory fails me as to when or why I did so and I certainly can't remember ever reading through any of the posts back then or I'm sure I'd have stepped out of the shadows earlier.

Keep up the good work EC1.
Click to expand...

Hi Danny

I've enjoyed reading many of your posts on OHR..i remember posting there re Our Conor after Warbler suggested i have a look over there. Thanks for the kind words but i'm only guessing same as anyone else..i just try to keep the guessing to a minimum if possible. I'm sure this forum will benefit greatly from your input.
 
Good to see you on here, Danny.
I enjoyed reading your musings on FF (I'm "Hoofhearted" on there), and look forward to similar on here.
 
Thanks for the welcome guys I don't know how much I'll be contributing over the next few weeks as I'm feeling a bit drained after Ascot.Thought I'd be taking a couple of weeks break as couldn't bring myself to look at the racing after Friday but knowing me it won't take that long until I'm getting stuck in again.
 
Back
Top