Eclipse Stakes

reet hard said:
Runs as pacemaker for True Story; according to KF.
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link?

read that they were gonna put Somewhat in as the pacemaker. seems daft they'd put TL in for that. he's an Irish Derby winner. TS has done nothing yet.
 
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Maybe you're right, James?
Read earlier (can't find link now) where KF said that Godolphin were to run a pacemaker for TS. Just assumed it was TL on the premise that it would be odd to use a pacemaker ostensibly in different ownership.
 
reet hard said:
Maybe you're right, James?
Read earlier (can't find link now) where KF said that Godolphin were to run a pacemaker for TS. Just assumed it was TL on the premise that it would be odd to use a pacemaker ostensibly in different ownership.
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yeah it's Somewhat. De Sousa is on board. TL isn't jocked up yet which worries me a tad.
 
KF doesn't mention a pacemaker in his Weekender column.

Paul Kealy tips TL ew at 25s.
 
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i find it quite funny that Mordin was ridiculed for suggesting Leading Light should drop to 10f..and yet Trading Leather is a slower horse than he and is more stoutly bred..but here we are with people suggesting he has a chance in this??

funny old game
 
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EC1 said:
i find it quite funny that Mordin was ridiculed for suggesting Leading Light should drop to 10f..and yet Trading Leather is a slower horse than he and is more stoutly bred..but here we are with people suggesting he has a chance in this??

funny old game
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does LL post good speed figs then? hasn't raced at 10f for over a year (in a group 3) so must be a hard argument to backup.

TL has ran creditable races in the dante, juddmonte & irish champion. all top 10f races.

25s e/w is a perfectly good bet if he turns up and it's good ground. the main worry is if he pulls his head off again.
 
Kingston Hill a max bet this morning before 10am decs, still 9/1 out there. Going to **** it down Saturday morning.
 
Decs and Coral odds

2 The Fugue
3 Night Of Thunder
11/2 Verrazano
7 Kingston Hill
15/2 War Command
14 Mukhadram
14 True Story
 
JamesRB said:
does LL post good speed figs then? hasn't raced at 10f for over a year (in a group 3) so must be a hard argument to backup.

TL has ran creditable races in the dante, juddmonte & irish champion. all top 10f races.

25s e/w is a perfectly good bet if he turns up and it's good ground. the main worry is if he pulls his head off again.
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Its pretty irrelevant what speed figures TL has posted at 10..i would imagine plodder LL could do just the same. Australia ran a creditable race in the guineas..using your argument he should have been kept at that distance..because he ran "creditably" at it, so why are they winning 12f races with him i wonder...its probably because that is where he is bred to be best.

TL should be running at 12f+ where he at least has a chance of winning races..not just running creditably...breeding suggests a cup horse. I'd love to see LL versus TL at 10f head to head..LL easily would outspeed it.

You seem to think that because a horse wins at a distance that's their trip..if that was the case how come 1.5 mile horses win at 7f at 2yo..the simple answer is that horses grow and develop and eventually show best at a distance they are bred to show best form at..with TL..thats stamina tests..not speed. If you had a top miler would you keep running at 6f where it runs creditably but never achieves its potential?..seriously?

I love the last bit where you make enough excuses for afterwards..if he turns up..if he settles...if its good ground..if there is a T in the day;)
 
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EC1 said:
Its pretty irrelevant what speed figures TL has posted at 10..i would imagine plodder LL could do just the same. Australia ran a creditable race in the guineas..using your argument he should have been kept at that distance..because he ran "creditably" at it, so why are they winning 12f races with him i wonder...its probably because that is where he is bred to be best.

TL should be running at 12f+ where he at least has a chance of winning races..not just running creditably...breeding suggests a cup horse. I'd love to see LL versus TL at 10f head to head..LL easily would outspeed it.

You seem to think that because a horse wins at a distance that's their trip..if that was the case how come 1.5 mile horses win at 7f at 2yo..the simple answer is that horses grow and develop and eventually show best at a distance they are bred to show best form at..with TL..thats stamina tests..not speed. If you had a top miler would you keep running at 6f where it runs creditably but never achieves its potential?..seriously?

I love the last bit where you make enough excuses for afterwards..if he turns up..if he settles...if its good ground..if there is a T in the day;)
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well he's gonna turn up so it's one down two to go :lol:

Ultimately TL has ran well in group 1 races at the distance. There's more evidence there he could run well/win an eclipse than there is for LL to do the same in a Group 1 10f race. Maybe Mordin is right but I'd be surprised if we ever got chance to find out.
 
As many on here love the dosage..these two horses look pretty similar..both have decent stamina

Leading Light .........DI = 0.96 ........CD = 0.10
Trading Leather .....DI = 1.15.........CD = 0.14

when you consider that the average for the Derby is

DI 1.24 ..CD 0.22

both LL and TL have less speed [DI below Derby Av]than a Derby winner...and more stamina than a Derby winner[CD less than Derby Av]

both horses would therefore be deemed ...using a method widely agreed on the board as a good tool for assessing stamina/speed in a horse... to have nowhere near the speed to win at 10f when fully mature.
 
JamesRB said:
well he's gonna turn up so it's one down two to go :lol:

Ultimately TL has ran well in group 1 races at the distance. There's more evidence there he could run well/win an eclipse than there is for LL to do the same in a Group 1 10f race. Maybe Mordin is right but I'd be surprised if we ever got chance to find out.
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:)

I do think Mordin is very wrong...we can all suggest running horses at wrong trips..and yes they may well get placed..but why would anyone want to do it when you can win races at their correct distance.

I still say that that both LL and TL are similar in what trip they want..but Mordin got well ridiculed ..whereas someone in the press tips a similar type in this and nowt said..feel a bit sorry for Nick..he does get special treatment
 
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My apologies for my earlier post, there's 11 decs:

The Fugue
Night Of Thunder
Verrazano
Kingston Hill
War Command
Mukhadram
True Story
Trading Leather
Tulius
Somewhat
Zambucca

Obviously a couple ground-dependent who may pull out but it looks a good renewal with the chance of something special.
 
A very good mix of 3yo and older horses.
While The Fugue should win we thought the same about Bosra Sham.
Fillies do not have the best record in this race historically so I am inclined to watch.
War Command is interesting as he has plenty of ability but has a few questions to answer.
Trading Leather underrated by some here but is genuine, a galloper and has tip top form from last year in some very good races.
I do hope rain will not spoil play !
 
edgt said:
A very good mix of 3yo and older horses.
While The Fugue should win we thought the same about Bosra Sham.
Fillies do not have the best record in this race historically so I am inclined to watch.
War Command is interesting as he has plenty of ability but has a few questions to answer.
Trading Leather underrated by some here but is genuine, a galloper and has tip top form from last year in some very good races.
I do hope rain will not spoil play !
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i don't under rate TL..he's a similar horse to Leading Light..i wouldn't back him in it either..might place ..might not..i'd rather back a horse capable of winning at the distance...if the rain comes it won't be fugue..doubt she wil run if it does
 
Aragorn said:
Harsh on Atzeni if he's been jockey off. Thought he gave Kingston Hill a good ride in the derby given his draw.
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Is he retained by Varian? I thought he was retained by Cumani (or one of his owners?) and will therefore be required at Haydock?
 
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