Explosion On The Tube

No, there are armed police at many tube stations all over London. The story just reported is that police were searching all bags of passengers waiting on the platform when one person starting running away. This is the man who was shot.
 
The eyewitness said the Asian was wearing a large winter type padded coat. He didn't notice he was carrying anything but naturally anything could have been concealed under the coat.
 
Yesterday Ian Blair said things would move very fast . I imagine the failed bombers have left bucketloads of clues . I hope so and they get right to the heart of a terrorist network .
 
The use of sniffer dogs at times like these would really assist the security forces and if we had enough of them, would be a pretty efficient way of checking passengers quickly using public transprot (well, as quickly as is feasible anyway). However, we don't have enough trained dogs to hand and it will take quite a while to get enough trained mutts out on the streets.

Pity.
 
'POLICE WERE CHASING HIM'

Eyewitnesses have recalled how the police chased the suspected bomber before opening fire.

Mark Whitby said he was sitting on the Tube train reading his paper as it was stationary with its doors open in Stockwell station.


He said he heard people shouting "get down, get down!"

He said: "An Asian guy ran on to the train. As he ran, he was hotly pursued by what I knew to be three plainclothes police officers."

He said the man tripped and was pushed to the floor.

He said: "One of the police officers was holding a black automatic pistol in his left hand.

"They held it down to him and unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead, five shots, he's dead."

Teri Godly, who was also in the carriage when the suspected bomber boarded, said: "A tall Asian man with a beard and a rucksack got on after me. Then about eight or nine police with shotguns boarded after him and started shouting to us all 'get out, get out of the station'."

"People started screaming and we all started running quite calmly up the stairs. There were six or seven gunshots behind us. It was very surreal. No one was pushing or shoving. We were in a state of shock. It was only afterwards that I realised how lucky we had been."

Chris Wells, a 28-year-old company manager, said he was travelling on the Victoria Line towards Vauxhall when he left the train at Stockwell.

He saw about 20 police officers, some of them armed, rushing into the station before a man jumped over the barriers with police giving chase.

He said: "There were at least 20 officers and they were carrying big black guns.

"The next thing I saw was this guy jump over the barriers and the police officers were chasing after him and everyone was just shouting 'get out, get out'."

Christopher Scaglione, 35, a fashion designer, was also on a Victoria Line Tube train shortly before the incident.

He said: "The train didn't stop at Vauxhall and so I got out at Stockwell.

"I was just on my way out when I heard at first a little bang, not like a bomb more like a gun, and then people were shouting.

"People then started to run and I heard two or three more bangs like people shooting."
 
Totally agree with Phil in that it would be no good whatsoever shooting to disable a potential suicide bomber - it may take only the twitch of a finger to detonate a bomb.
 
"He said the man tripped and was pushed to the floor.

He said: "One of the police officers was holding a black automatic pistol in his left hand.

"They held it down to him and unloaded five shots into him. I saw it. He's dead, five shots, he's dead."
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If that's true it doesn't quite seem the best way to gather intelligence.
 
AIM WAS TO ARREST MAN

Specialist officers had been tailing the man shot at Stockwell Tube station from his home, says Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt.

Police believed the Asian man was responsible for an attempted attack on the nearby Oval Tube on Thursday and had set up surveillance on him.


Brunt said officers had followed the man from his home and that the initial plan was to arrest him.

But from his home to Stockwell Tube, events overtook police and marksmen were forced to shoot.

Despite temperatures of around 22C (72F), officers and witnesses said the man was wearing a heavy coat under which it was feared may have been a bomb.

Brunt said: "Intelligence officers had suggested he was the bomber from Thursday.

"Officers were confronted with the very real possibility that this man did have a bomb."

Initial examinations though, said Brunt, did not discover any explosives on the suspect.
 
Originally posted by Phil Waters@Jul 22 2005, 12:03 PM
If you shoot him once, disabling him, but he is still able to make even some small amount of movement, he could set off a bomb.

So while you "don't shoot him five times" mob are writing out your complaints of excessive police force, I'll be running in the opposite direction of an explosion.
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Too true, Phil. Yes, I'm sure there will be plenty of people criticising the police for being heavy handed - but please! As there is a full investigation every time a policeman fires his gun, they clearly considered this man to be an immediate threat to the public. This isn't America - the police don't shoot people dead unless they absolutely have to; hell, they don't shoot people period unless they feelk they have no other choice. To have unloaded 5 shots into the body at close range, the intent was clearly to kill therefore this man must have been believed to be an immediate threat to public safety. Also - why on earth would he be wearing a thick padded coat in London in the summer? I find this country very cold most of the time & even I am in a t-shirt!
 
Pictures of the assumed bombers are now being shown on the TV. Very good colour images have been captured, and I hope to God, that people who know them turn them in. If they are innocent, they will be released without charge, if they are not, god help them.

I have to say I think the police are doing a remarkable job. I am always quick to criticise them for them being useless on a day to day level, but I have every confidence that these bungling "bombers" will be caught, and quickly. Let's face it this time we seem to be dealing with real amateurs who appear to have been lucky enough not to have killed and seriously maimed innocent people going about their everyday business. Let's hope the general public turn them in before they try another attempt and are next time..... more successful.
 
Good Evening.
Fantastic Marksmanship from the Police markesman.A three inch grouping of five rounds from a range of less than 12 inches.
 
Derek, what are you trying to say? You can't surely be condemning the marksmen for wanting to protect the public from a possible suicide bomber? And as for the marksmanship, it was hardly a bloody target competition. I think we could do without the flippant comments in situations such as these.
 
Given that they'd all had a darn good run beforehand, I think the grouping's good - after all, who'd want to be shot by a sloppy marksman?

"Ow! That's my arm, you wanker!" Bang! "Yeeow... wtf... that's my leg!" Bang! "Jeezuskristman! What the hell are you..." Bang! Bang! "Oooff... thazz bettrrrr..."

My ex-DCI colleague at Lingfield tells me that the preferred method of despatch by the SAS is to pop one in the back of the head "to make sure", since painful experience has shown that unless they ensure their quarry's finished off, determined types will fight to the last possible moment. I imagine the Polizei have a similar instruction, since the last thing they'd want is Abdullah managing to pull the ring with his dying breath.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jul 22 2005, 07:45 PM
the preferred method of despatch by the SAS is to pop one in the back of the head "to make sure"
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That would have been my first.
 
The back of the head being where the medulla oblongata which controls many things including - crucially - reflex, resides.
 
I think the first is a take-down shot or two, Maurice - especially if it's from a distance with a rifle, say? Then you run up to the fallen, and pop one in the head. If you've hit him first with a head shot, you pop another in, just in case he's not dead enough. Thanks, Gareth - that explains the positioning.
 
I bet Derek is dying to respond to Shadow, but can't or we'll all know for certain that "rumoursabound" is him. :lol:
 
I am in London on business on Weds/Thurs and am a little fearful, but will still come.

As a practicing lilly livered liberal pinko, I have always been a little ambiguous over shoot to kill policies such as those that operated in NI and Gibraltar for instance. I find that my reticence is leaving me lately.
 
It's probably the difference between usually only having an objective view, and then finding the subjective one is up close, and very personal.
 
I have certainly never been in favour of "shoot to kill" policies - I just don't know what the alternatives can be when faced with an individual who is committed to blowing themselves up and taking as many people as possible with them. The obvious problem is that the person with the gun is likely to be acting on assumption and instinct when he or she opens fire.
 
Originally posted by an capall@Jul 23 2005, 10:10 AM
I am in London on business on Weds/Thurs and am a little fearful, but will still come.

As a practicing lilly livered liberal pinko, I have always been a little ambiguous over shoot to kill policies such as those that operated in NI and Gibraltar for instance. I find that my reticence is leaving me lately.
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I remember the Gibralter slayings with great affection. As for shooting to kill, i totally disagree with it, if only because it robs the authorities of the chance of using their torture equipment.
 
According to BBC News, the man shot dead yesterday is not connected to the attacks.

(That sound is the s*** hitting the fan)
 
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